Creative Content Ideation with Dr. Nick Ciardiello

The following transcription was from the Bulletproof Youtube channel. Here is the https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irlu8jk5_K0

Craig Spodak
0:00:00
Welcome back to an episode. Are you happy Peter?

Peter Boulden
0:00:12
No, I didn't say I'm welcome. But like, you know, like there's a process. I know like you love to live life by the seat of your pants and just let me fill in the gaps and take care of you. But jeez, you're stepping all over me today, bud.

Craig Spodak
0:00:24
So sorry Nick, we were so rudely interrupted by that intro. It's good to have, I want to introduce you real quick. So everybody knows Dr. Nick is Dr. Nick on IG. You've got like what, like 100,000 followers or something like that?

Nick Ciardiello
0:00:41
I think so, yeah, right around there.

Craig Spodak
0:00:43
So I mean that's a legit influencer, but you're funny to me. When I started following you, someone shared me your profile and I was literally dying with your impersonation of different types of dentists. You nailed it.

Nick Ciardiello
0:00:56
I appreciate that.

Craig Spodak
0:00:57
If there was such a thing as dental humor and a form for that, you're leading the pack with that.

Nick Ciardiello
0:01:01
Well, I appreciate that.

Nick Ciardiello
0:01:03
Thank you.

Peter Boulden
0:01:04
How do you guys know, how did Nick, how do you and Craig know each other?

Nick Ciardiello
0:01:07
It's via Instagram.

Peter Boulden
0:01:08
You slid in, Craig, you like to say, go ahead and slid into the DMs. I did. I did. I did. He said dude you're so funny. Dental humor is off the charts. Come on the podcast. Yeah. Yeah. So Nick you're a pediatric dentist right? Not in my wildest dreams. I would never do that.

Craig Spodak
0:01:29
Oh. I make fun of them. I make fun of them. No I'm not a pediatric dentist.

Nick Ciardiello
0:01:34
Okay. You know what? Like as Craig said hey check him out. One of the videos I saw actually was you, I guess you were, it was a spoof on pediatric because it was kind of funny. Oh he does endow orals. Okay, so Nick, tell me, give us your background. How long you been out? How long you been out of school? Yeah, so I graduated 2017. I did a year of residency because it's required in New York. After I did that, then I thought I was going to be a cool Manhattan dentist, so I started working in Manhattan for two years and I was commuting from Jersey and I was working at like three offices at the time, and then I just dropped Manhattan. And now I currently work at four different offices in Jersey and I'm scratch starting a practice for myself that I've been working on since, well, August. So we're getting close to closing on a lease finally And we're just kind of waiting for something from the bank, but it seems like it's gonna happen relatively soon. That's awesome So that's awesome. Tell us a little bit about that practice. You're gonna build if you don't mind what yes, so the ops What's it gonna look like so it's gonna be 2,600 square feet seven operatories You know primarily what I like doing are cosmetic surgeries and stuff like that I've worked at a bunch of high-end offices, so that's the way I'm kind of trained. And I'm a coist guy too. So I'm hoping to make it that sort of practice,

Nick Ciardiello
0:02:58
to be honest with you.

Nick Ciardiello
0:02:59
Yeah, that's what I'm doing.

Peter Boulden
0:03:00
So Nick, what I love about this, and obviously, you and I have had not much time together, now on the verge of about, what, six minutes now. But what I like and what I've deduced from just kind of you and just hearing you talk is that you work at a lot of different locations, right? But you took it on yourself to create the brand of you, right? With your following because you knew that would always follow you around, right? So you are in a great position for opening up your own practice. And Craig and I talk about this all the time. It's like the solo printer, you know, some people say like, well I'm just an associate, what can I do? And you took the other side and it's like, look, I'm gonna get my learning and get the chops and learn things from people, but also create Nick the brand when I then go to my next steps in life, in my next practice. So I love that. I love that you didn't just become complacent and like, well, one day, you know, one day when I have my own practice, I'm going to do this. And one day, you know, you said, hey, I love it. I love it. So did I deduce that correctly?

Peter Boulden
0:04:01
Did I deduce that?

Nick Ciardiello
0:04:02
I gotta give my, you did, I gotta give my ex-girlfriend some credit though because she was the one like years ago when I was in my residency, that's when I started, or actually no, it was like my fourth year of dental school and she's like, oh, have you seen Dr. Mike on Instagram? I'm like, no, who's this guy? And she was like, why don't you try to be like the dentist version of him?

Peter Boulden
0:04:19
You know, it's funny you say that. My wife, my wife said the same thing to me and I try, actually, it's so funny you say that. I actually changed my IG profile because at first it was Peter Bolton, right? And she was my wife was like my wife has like 60,000 followers because she had some TV in What am I trying to say reality TV shows and so she's like you need to do this And so I literally what do you bring this up? I change it from Peter Bolton to dr. Bolton because dr. Mike was having such a good success with it. So I was like, let me do that, too

Craig Spodak
0:04:46
Right, you know, hey Peter, you know what? Dr. Nick and dr. Mike both have in common that you don't? They actually go on their Instagram and open that shit up once a month at least once a week.

Peter Boulden
0:04:56
Well, I use it.

Craig Spodak
0:04:58
I send stuff to Peter. It's like two months later. He does not even understand.

Craig Spodak
0:05:03
If it goes on, it's incredible.

Peter Boulden
0:05:05
Craig, this is not true though. I mean, I used to live and breathe on it and like be really, you know, when I was practicing clinical, right, and creating that clinical brand and this and that. I was on it all the time. But it becomes so habitual almost that like literally you spend every waking moment, you know, saying like, oh, well, who's, you know, you do a post and you spend all this time in the post and then you spend all day watching like, how many likes have I gotten and who's required and who watched and who's watching me now and who's subscribed now? And it became, because I'm an all or nothing kind of guy, it became like a little bit obsessive compulsive for me and so I had to swing the pendulum back or I would become shitty Husband shitty dad shitty shitty all these things So for me Craig it was it was an act of necessity that I have to resist myself I had to get Instagram off of my first page Nick of of my phone because it was it was this dopamine Like yeah habit that I would just like whoa. I've got I've got 30 seconds to kill at the stoplight Let me just look at Instagram.

Nick Ciardiello
0:06:02
When you're growing quick, I'm the same way, like if I do something, I do it 100%. So when I first grew the Instagram, I was five or six days a week posting, I was liking, commenting, engaging with everyone. And that's when, in the first year or two, is when I went from 500 followers to 40, 50,000 in a year or two. And I was like, oh wow, this is awesome, I'm just gonna keep growing. And then when I started getting busy in practice and real life stuff, and then I got tired of like having to sit near your phone and having to post that between one and two

Craig Spodak
0:06:31
when engagement hours are best.

Nick Ciardiello
0:06:33
I just got sick of that.

Nick Ciardiello
0:06:34
So like now I don't really do it as much and I just post like the funny stuff or the good content when I get it.

Peter Boulden
0:06:40
But you reached that inflection point, right? So I think there's a tipping point and I'm talking like I know, because I've never reached that. I think I don't even know how many I have, Craig. Craig will tell you how many followers I have. But you probably reached that tipping point of,

Craig Spodak
0:06:52
what'd you say?

Craig Spodak
0:06:53
I said you have 275. I don't know, you have like 15,000.

Peter Boulden
0:06:57
15,000, but I guess it's all because of, well, it's all because of my wife's old reality show.

Peter Boulden
0:07:03
She's getting some of the.

Peter Boulden
0:07:04
Yeah, it's just that, you know, I guess all the preteens that followed her were like, oh, we'll follow the husband too, so awesome.

Craig Spodak
0:07:10
You're 13,700, that's legit, man.

Peter Boulden
0:07:12
Yeah.

Peter Boulden
0:07:13
You're an influencer.

Peter Boulden
0:07:14
Anyway, what I was saying, though, Nick, is I was giving you, there's probably an inflection point I'd like you to comment on, not me, that you pushed the ball up the hill, like you said, all that potential energy you created of followers, followers getting online, doing five days a week, and it was like a job probably for you, right? Part-time job. Oh, yeah. And then finally, you're like, you got sick of it, but good thing was you pushed that ball up to the top, and now it kind of can roll down a little bit and you can ride some of that hard work, that kinetic energy, that potential energy you created is now kinetic.

Nick Ciardiello
0:07:44
Exactly. The other thing is that I've kept it alive is that I do get a lot of brand opportunities via it. I've worked with Dentsply, Henry Shine, Colgate, Crest, almost Sensodyne. Tomorrow I'm posting a new Sensodyne. I'm releasing their new toothpaste. Do they hit you up or do you hit them up? They all hit me up, so that's my issue. Since I haven't been a practice owner, my issue is that I don't really have the time to pay someone, I don't have the money to pay someone to take it over and do these things. Because when I was first growing up, I was getting emails every day, hey, do you want to part with here? And it was like, I couldn't manage responding to all the emails and figuring out how much money and the times, and it was like, that's something I'll do when I have my own place I'll pay someone to like take care of it. So like it's just tough like you constantly have to be about it and like since I'm in a tough spot as an associate I guess it's just like I guess it's an excuse but it's just tough to do that.

Peter Boulden
0:08:40
No I think I mean yeah I agree with what you're saying I don't know if it's an excuse per se I mean we're saying the same thing.

Craig Spodak
0:08:47
It doesn't help that you have like these monster commute times. Like I follow your stories and like some of these commutes are like an hour or more.

Nick Ciardiello
0:08:54
I mean. I'm getting two hours some days. Like I work in one day I work in Mount Laurel, New Jersey, which is like, it's about an hour and a half without traffic, but I live next to New York. So if I get out at five o'clock on the way back going home, it's two, two and a half hours.

Peter Boulden
0:09:09
Why so many practices, if you don't mind me asking.

Nick Ciardiello
0:09:12
Yeah, so like what I found was I like producing and I like working. Yeah. So what I found was when I went to one office or two offices and I was there three days, maybe four for some of them, there was only like one of the, I think I've worked at 12

Peter Boulden
0:09:27
offices now.

Nick Ciardiello
0:09:28
There was only one that actually had me booked like four days a week, jam packed and I was like crushing it. But like all the other ones, every time I gave them more than two days, I would have like these three or four hour gaps. And I was like, why do this when I can associate with five places, be packed five days a week,

Peter Boulden
0:09:44
and just run and gun.

Peter Boulden
0:09:46
Meaning that the team only knows they, we only get Dr. Nick one day a week, let's stack him up, right? Okay, I see, I see. As opposed to like, I love it.

Craig Spodak
0:09:55
What specific things do you do though in these practices? You said cosmetic surgery, what does that mean?

Nick Ciardiello
0:10:00
Well, like so, cosmetics, like I do like, I have like that place in Mount Laurel, like that guy, he likes just doing the all on four implants. So like if he has anything with veneers or restorative stuff, I do it. I mean, I also do immediate, a ton of immediate implants. So some of the offices I go to, they don't do implants. So I go, I do their immediate implants. I, I take care of that for them. I'm doing their molar endos. Like I'm essentially like sort of like a traveling specialist to be honest with you.

Craig Spodak
0:10:25
Cause I'm doing all the specialty.

Nick Ciardiello
0:10:26
Yeah. I'm doing all specialty work at all the offices to be honest with you.

Craig Spodak
0:10:29
The stuff that they don't want to do.

Nick Ciardiello
0:10:31
That's awesome.

Peter Boulden
0:10:31
So they triage them for you, they get them all set up and they land them on you. You mean they do all the heavy lifting, the enrollment of it, and then all of a sudden they land on your schedule. It's like, yeah, I'll knock it down, sure.

Peter Boulden
0:10:43
Yeah, why not, why not?

Craig Spodak
0:10:45
So there was a practice you said, you spoke about that had you jammed like three or four days a week. What happened there? Why did you wind up pivoting and going out to different prices?

Nick Ciardiello
0:10:54
He sold the Dental 365.

Nick Ciardiello
0:10:56
Okay.

Nick Ciardiello
0:10:57
Yeah, so I was with him for a year and a half.

Craig Spodak
0:10:58
What is that, an x-ray company?

Peter Boulden
0:11:00
Well, it's the DSO. No, I've never heard of them either.

Peter Boulden
0:11:05
Wait, you guys never heard of that one?

Nick Ciardiello
0:11:06
No.

Peter Boulden
0:11:07
Are you serious?

Nick Ciardiello
0:11:08
No.

Peter Boulden
0:11:09
I mean, yes.

Nick Ciardiello
0:11:09
From what I heard was, last year it was the fastest growing DSO in the country.

Craig Spodak
0:11:13
Oh, yeah, I've never heard of that. Yeah.

Nick Ciardiello
0:11:17
Yeah. So they're really, they started in Long Island and then they started taking all the Long Island, New York practices. And then I think we, they were, we were going to be their second Jersey location. And this was, this was in August when I started doing my own things because I was supposed to buy into that place. He was building in his own operatory, another operatory for me.

Craig Spodak
0:11:35
No way.

Nick Ciardiello
0:11:36
Yeah.

Craig Spodak
0:11:37
And then all of a sudden.

Peter Boulden
0:11:38
Surprise, surprise.

Nick Ciardiello
0:11:39
All of a sudden, it stopped being built and everything's finished except the chair's there. And I'm like, it's been like two months, what's going on? And then he just brings me into the office and we have a two week office shutdown starting the following Monday. And he brings me on a Thursday and he goes, Nick, I sold the office. When you come back for your two week break, I won't be the owner anymore. He goes, the owner's coming in tomorrow. He's gonna talk to you.

Craig Spodak
0:12:01
I was like, what just happened?

Craig Spodak
0:12:04
Can you believe people conduct themselves that way? I mean, I'm not throwing shade on the guy. I'm just saying, I could never imagine having a conversation like that.

Peter Boulden
0:12:13
Yeah, but what was he going to do, Craig? I understand it from his perspective. Yeah. I mean, what's he going to do? Hey, Nick, I'm thinking about selling. This is going to become an unstable environment in the next six months. You might want to leave, which will totally destroy the value of my practice.

Craig Spodak
0:12:26
Well, there's a way to bring him in the fold.

Nick Ciardiello
0:12:30
No, there's…

Craig Spodak
0:12:31
He's selling, there's, you know, because he has to… Let's look at the metrics of this. He didn't get paid all of his money up front, number one. There's a holdback, typically.

Peter Boulden
0:12:39
Maybe. You don't know the deal. So, wait, to cut you, he got 100% day one. There you go, Craig. You don't know the deal.

Nick Ciardiello
0:12:45
His practice was… When I mean, like, production numbers, like, I was probably doing close to 2 million like one and a half to 2 million as an associate doing three or four days a week like that's how good his office was he was doing probably 4 million himself

Craig Spodak
0:12:58
so like yes so like that's what I'm okay let's go down let's put our business hats on here for a second okay so he got a hundred percent of his money up front dr. Nick the powerhouse that's doing two million or one and a half, $2 million a year is gone too. What did they actually buy?

Nick Ciardiello
0:13:16
So I kept in contact with everyone at the office and we're talking about like people at this office has been there 20, 25 years. And like the treatment planning coordinator, nothing, the treatment planning coordinator is a dentist herself in a different country. She's been there 30, so like everyone there is just like, it's a machine.

Peter Boulden
0:13:34
I kept in contact.

Nick Ciardiello
0:13:35
Is he still there now?

Craig Spodak
0:13:38
Is he still there?

Nick Ciardiello
0:13:39
So he's still there, but from what I heard, he had three years to stay after I left in August. And then in his contract, and this is half the reason why I didn't say, his contract explicitly stated he was still allowed to cherry pick any cases that he wanted from my schedule for the next 18 months. And he wasn't supposed to tell me that. And I was like, I'm done with this cherry picking stuff. Like you're not even the owner anymore. I'm like, why am I going to stay around for you to take whatever choices? So anyways, I kept in contact with some of the other people and legitimately within the first three months, there was like six or seven employees were gone. They were offering the hygienist crazy amounts of money to stay just because everyone's turned over. The owners that cashed out, apparently he's taken all of his vacation time. He's not really doing much.

Craig Spodak
0:14:25
It sounds terrible. Let me ask you, let's just have a conversation. Is this a surprise to anybody that this would happen?

Nick Ciardiello
0:14:32
No, no.

Craig Spodak
0:14:33
So what's, so I just don't understand the business model. Cause the business was Dr. Nick and Dr. Senior is what the business was. Dr. Nick one day is gone, 1.5, let's call it 1.8 million, gone, top line revenue. That is enough on a, you know, you said he's doing it by doing four, you're doing 1.8. That's enough to put the practice probably into the, into the, into the red, right there. Yeah. And then you take him out to like, it's just doesn't make any sense.

Nick Ciardiello
0:15:01
Yeah. And like they, you know, they had some tough hires right after me to some like people who are actually younger than me, who I went to dental school with. And like, I, and there was like a lot of issues with the turnovers. And then apparently that so he did have a periodontist who would come in like once a week and she was great um but again she left also when we were done so like she left

Craig Spodak
0:15:22
she was there for 10-15 years it was just yeah great i mean unfortunately what you're describing is common that's why i just started laughing like you know but yeah i mean god bless them all so yeah i've never heard of that particular dso but it's just that that's a very common practice, unfortunately. Peter, any thoughts on that?

Peter Boulden
0:15:40
No.

Peter Boulden
0:15:40
Sounds like they bought some providers, but they didn't really buy a business.

Craig Spodak
0:15:43
But yeah. Yeah.

Peter Boulden
0:15:43
And because you don't know the economics of the deal, right. You know, if it was a hundred percent. Right. Nick, we talk about this a lot. I know, I know you listened to a few of our pods, but we talked about kind of the economics of exiting and things like that. And so typically if, if someone, if a private equity investor is gonna put up 100% of the money with no clawbacks, no performance clauses. The owner, the person who says, like, I just wanna get the hell outta here, is selling it on discount, right? Because they're basically saying, I don't even trust in the future of this business without me therefore you shouldn't either, and therefore you should buy, I'm gonna sell this to you on sale because I just want to get the hell out. And so many dentists, unfortunately, get in this predicament where it's this, it's this like, oh, things are getting busy, busy, busy. I'm burnt out, I'm burnt out. And at the end, they're so burnt out, and they just don't care. There's resolve. They just surrender. And I'll take anything as long as I don't have to do this anymore kind of thing, as opposed to just getting to this comfortable pace of life where you're not burnt out. You're doing the dentistry you like. I know I'm going on a little bit of a tangent, but you see this in a lot of people. It's this pendulum. And I always do this movement where it goes from like, it's, whew, I'm so busy, I can't stand it. And then it's, I sold and I'm retired, and now I'm sitting on a beach, and I don't know what to do with the rest of my life.

Craig Spodak
0:16:58
Right, well, look at the advertising that the average DSO sends. I get these mailers all the time. There's one mailer, I'll leave the DSO nameless, but it's a guy, it's a doctor, about my age, probably mid-50s or whatever, and he's wearing half of his, I'm sorry, mid-70s, right? Half of him is in scrubs, and the other half of him is fishing. So it's basically like, do you not want to practice anymore? Great, we'll buy your business. What business is like, hey, you're a pizza maker, you're amazing, you don't want to make another pizza again?

Peter Boulden
0:17:24
Oh, I've seen that postcard. The one, it's the, they send it out to every dentist on the planet.

Nick Ciardiello
0:17:28
You are right.

Peter Boulden
0:17:29
It's like, you want to spend more time in the kitchen? It's a publicly traded company, right?

Craig Spodak
0:17:31
Yeah, but how many people, how many people would buy a business? You're like, I just want, you're the business owner, you're like, I hate this, I want to get the fuck out like I hate everything about it I'm the best pizza maker ever but I don't want to make another goddamn pizza ever again I don't want to teach another guy how to make a pizza just give me money and let me go

Peter Boulden
0:17:49
Hey did you listen to the HR5 podcast by the way? No I didn't. Yeah it's awesome honestly it was really cool. That's your wheelhouse bro. You're the biohacking team. Yeah and honestly the byline of our practice for a while was the oral systemic connection. Like we dove deep. I told them on the pond I was like I was like a founding member of AOSH. Believe it or not. I don't claim that anymore because whatever. But yes it has been a big proponent of our practice, our hygiene program. And the cool thing about it was is transform the testing. Dr. Nabors has been like the OG of testing for that forever. Tom Nabors. And this is still, it's just made the price point where it's a no brainer. And I think the beautiful thing about COVID, Craig, if there was one, is that people are so used to testing and being like, do I have it, do I not? And so being able to go in and do an exam, I'm sorry, testing under a hundred dollars and then do diagnostic driven hygiene, as opposed to just like, hey, let's just make you bleed a lot and make your gums be clean. Like, no.

Craig Spodak
0:18:50
Yeah, I think you're doing better. I think you're bleeding less.

Peter Boulden
0:18:52
I don't know.

Peter Boulden
0:18:52
Yeah, you're bleeding.

Peter Boulden
0:18:53
Or you did actually scale different today.

Peter Boulden
0:18:55
Who knows?

Nick Ciardiello
0:18:56
Yeah, exactly.

Peter Boulden
0:18:56
But I love that dentistry is evolving to be like, instead of using a bazooka gun to blast everything away, we're getting to become like assassins. Where it's like, no, actually, you're just high in this bacterium, which let's address it through Periopertex, or this medicament, or this treatment, or whatever it may be.

Craig Spodak
0:19:13
It's very surgical.

Peter Boulden
0:19:14
Very surgical. And it allows the hygienist to work, be better treatment for the patient. They don't have to crush their hands all day long. And they're doing, you know, it's just.

Craig Spodak
0:19:23
But you also get as a patient, you get quantitative data that you're getting better. And I do agree with you. I didn't think of it that way.

Nick Ciardiello
0:19:28
Before that.

Craig Spodak
0:19:29
Yeah, but you also, the COVID thing, like everybody's familiar with the PCR test. Everybody's familiar with those little bars that light up red now.

Peter Boulden
0:19:36
So it is true, like the way that the test looks. And guess what? Guess what the banter, I said this in the pod, the banter in the cocktail party could be, my dentist is now testing me for this, right?

Craig Spodak
0:19:50
Yeah, I had periodontal disease, my dentist tested me for it and he fixed it. Yeah. What are you talking about? I just have to go for cleanings every three weeks now.

Peter Boulden
0:19:57
Yeah.

Craig Spodak
0:19:58
No, no, no, no, my dentist tested me. What do you mean? I had a test, I had this type of bacteria, they gave me a very specific antibiotic and now it's gone.

Peter Boulden
0:20:04
Matter of fact, here it is on my phone. You haven't got it?

Craig Spodak
0:20:06
Yeah, I took a screenshot. Your dentist doesn't do that? Where do you go to? Isn't it like Afghanistan? Where are you going to the dentist?

Nick Ciardiello
0:20:13
for his, I know we could rant on this all day because Nick, you probably have some funny stories. What do you want to have me do, an impersonation?

Peter Boulden
0:20:19
Well, I don't know, maybe, maybe. But I also do want to leverage him for like, look, it's a unique skill set to be able to aggregate that kind of influence, right? Attention is power, Nick has generated power and it's obviously it's going to benefit for him for the rest of his career, whether it's aggregating patients, whether it's getting deals with manufacturers, whether it's getting supplies for free to then lower your overhead. This will manifest in all sorts of ways to your benefit because you put in the freaking work, Nick. That being said, are there some tips and tricks you can help us mere mortals who are listening to grow, right? Whether it's the practice IG, the personal doctor's IG, do you have advice on having both or one? Should you have, so here's some other questions, should you have one that's forward facing for dentists to show your gruesome surgery cases? Should you also then have one that's forward facing only for the patients to then new patients? All the things, and go.

Nick Ciardiello
0:21:25
So I think in terms of what kind of account you want, that's like something you have to discover first because like, do you want to be someone who's like, let's say Dr. Appa because he does the marketing, I guess the best via the cosmetic. But you can tell, he doesn't have the bloody, the preps. He doesn't have any of that on his page. Because personally, I would rather patients come to my page than dentists. That's just me personally.

Peter Boulden
0:21:51
You mean dentists don't give you money? Well, not yet.

Peter Boulden
0:21:56
That's true.

Peter Boulden
0:21:57
That's true.

Peter Boulden
0:21:58
Well, I'm right. But I'm making a funny joke. Is that obviously other dentists don't pay the bills. And so Greg and I, we talk about this. So there's this dental porn that you see sometimes only to aggregate other dental dentists. It's great. It's great for the contribution of the community, but at the end of the day, it doesn't really move the needle forward.

Craig Spodak
0:22:13
No, it actually moves the needle the wrong way because you get the veneer case, like, hey, you save those little points, those pegs. You're gonna do that shit to my teeth.

Peter Boulden
0:22:21
I found that picture.

Nick Ciardiello
0:22:22
Oh no, Diane.

Peter Boulden
0:22:23
I found those pictures of cat teeth you did.

Nick Ciardiello
0:22:25
Those cat teeth.

Peter Boulden
0:22:26
I have them back.

Peter Boulden
0:22:27
Like.

Nick Ciardiello
0:22:28
No, I mean, so like, I think that's like important in the beginning to figure out that way. Like for me, what I did was like, I can be funny. So like, and I'm pretty good at doing videos and my brother helps. So like I use the funny videos to get people to my page. And when they're on the page, oh, there's some beautiful cosmetic work there. I guess this guy's not just a funny guy. It seems like he's also a pretty good dentist. So that was the way I do it. And like, yes, some of my dental videos are very dental related, dentist specific, but those things like the video I just posted the other day, I haven't posted in a month and I got 50,000 views on it. And like that's without posting for a month before. So like, it's bringing the people to the page and doing something unique that-

Peter Boulden
0:23:11
It's a special skill though, Nick, to be able to ideate content. I know you know this and apparently you have a lot of windshield time on your hands, so maybe that's where you think about like, oh, that would be a great topic. I should do something like that. Look at Dr. Mike did. It still takes the creative brain to see because I think the question I get the most from people is like, I don't know what to post. I don't know what webpage to make. I don't know what Instagram to post. I don't know how to make content. How do you ideate around your content?

Nick Ciardiello
0:23:39
So a lot of it is I follow a lot of dental accounts I mean obviously the bigger ones like I dentistry dentistry my the ones that repost all these old videos So like you're constantly getting a feed of what the other videos are So like if I see someone else posted something funny, you know that kind of gets my juices going I can start thinking But a lot of it to be honest is like when I'm driving to work in the morning for an hour, like, if I think of something funny, I literally just jot it down on my notes on my phone. I literally just have video ideas. And then like, typically what I'll do is I'll either ask my girlfriend or I'll ask my brother and be like, yo, do you think this would be a funny idea if we can like do it like this? And they'd be like, oh wait, that could be funny. And then like, that's how we kind of get the, you know, the creativity behind it. And then a lot of it is also brand-wise too. So like when Sense and I reach out to me to work on their new product is fine tomorrow. They asked me, can you do a like a serious video? And I was like, well, I've good stuff with my humor. So I was like, why don't we just do something funny while informative at the same time. So like, I just, you know, exactly. You lived authentically. That's awesome. Yeah. So that, that's how I work with all my, the brands and like, that's how it's worked pretty well. And like, to be honest with you for like most people they want to know how much these brands are paying like you can Get anywhere from two to five thousand dollars at post if you do it the right way No, yeah, so like you know it so it's paying for me to go there So typically what I do is I go film on a Sunday when I'm off So like I would just go film for eight hours on a Sunday I filmed three or four more videos for companies And then I do whatever for myself and then get the hell out of there my brother edit

Craig Spodak
0:25:11
That's probably pretty fun was your girlfriend a dentist

Peter Boulden
0:25:15
by any chance she isn't okay was your was your ex-girlfriend a dentist the one that gave you the dr. Mike idea the one that puts you on the map she was a nurse

Nick Ciardiello
0:25:23
so she's nurse practitioner now but no the reason why I was like you're running these ideas by your brother and your girlfriend like that's like my brother, cause like when we do these videos, like the every pediatric dentist, I have like 30 different videos there, but he doesn't know which ones are funny. I was like, you gotta put Mr. Thirsty in there because everyone knows what Mr. Thirsty is. And he was like, I didn't think that was funny. I was like, that's a dentist thing though. And he didn't put it in the video. And I was like, so I just had to take a snapshot of it. But like, you're right. Not all the time do they know what they're talking about.

Craig Spodak
0:26:01
I love your other dentist one though. I sent it to my endo. You were like, is that the invisible rubber dam clamp? They're just like creepy guys. That's what I was thinking about. That's not true. You stare inside the canal. That's awesome. When's the practice, what's the practice timeline? Talk to me about that.

Nick Ciardiello
0:26:27
So practice right now, so like, yeah, I started in August, I got the lease, you know, I signed a letter of intent. I'm actually working with a consulting company. I don't know if you guys ever heard of Ideal Praxis, Jamie Amos.

Craig Spodak
0:26:39
Yep. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I know who he is, yeah.

Nick Ciardiello
0:26:41
Yeah, so I got on board with him in August and you know, my financial advisors that I work with are like Dental Civic, they did a bunch of companies, they did a bunch of practices with them. So that's how I got hooked up with them in terms of the whole thing. Now, what we're looking at is unfortunately the current tenant is not going to be out of the location until at latest August 1st. So June 1st to August 1st, and then obviously a six month build out after that, because I got six months free rent after to help build out. So we're probably looking February, January, February, March, maybe.

Craig Spodak
0:27:13
Got it. You got your financing all in order as well?

Nick Ciardiello
0:27:16
Yeah. So, unfortunately, the construction costs, as you can imagine, are crazy high right now. And we're in Jersey City, which is a very up and coming, there's new condos, buildings, being built everywhere. So, initially, it was 650. That's how much I got for my loan. And then 104 tenant improvement. And then we're happy to get another 50,000 through the bank. So we're looking at like, what is that 800 around, I guess,

Nick Ciardiello
0:27:41
for the build out.

Craig Spodak
0:27:42
You know, that's the, you know, the rich, it doesn't take money to make money. It takes leverage to make money. So I'm proud of you.

Peter Boulden
0:27:49
It's a good move that you're making.

Peter Boulden
0:27:50
So you haven't started construction though, correct?

Nick Ciardiello
0:27:53
No, no, because like, we just, you know, been kicking, I've been getting all the construction bids because like the way that I do practices work, they get three bids for everything. Three bids for the equipment from three different manufacturers, three different construction bids. So like, it's just a lot with all these different numbers flying around and we just had to make sure it was reasonable first. Just because the areas are-

Peter Boulden
0:28:14
Have they given you an indication of timeline? I mean, I was actually having a conversation in preparation for our summit. I'm actually doing a lecture or a track on kind of building and things. So I was getting some intel. Since I'm not in the process of building an office right now, when I was talking to my contractor who only builds dental, he builds big dental projects, and he was saying that literally it's three times, in some instances, it's three times the amount of time it would typically take him. A six month build is taking almost a year and a half. Some of these are ground up though, Nick, so like getting the steel trusses. And he said if you're trying to get custom shit right now, like forget about it. He's like, I would encourage all the people listening to you, tell them to go get something that's stock on the shelf and then replace it later down the way if you want. Right? Meaning like if you're trying to get custom plumbing and custom fixtures and custom this and that, he said basically no one went, the workforce is so reduced on some of these big factories that they're not even looking at custom things right now. And he said another hack would be to order some of the things by yourself, meaning on Amazon. So if you find something you like, start stockpiling, like, oh, I like these fixtures, let me order three of these, right? And you have a lot more control from the consumer than is gonna deploy into the building versus trying to depend on the contractor-manufacturer relationship because it may not be available. So just a little side tip because I did that a lot with my most recent build when I did a ground up construction. I would actually, I mean I had probably $100,000 of Amazon orders of stuff that I wanted that I knew he couldn't get. Maybe not that high but it was random things that I knew I could get. It wasn't because of backlog. I just knew that I saw it, I liked it, I knew I wanted it. So I got it and said, hey, I want you guys to put this here, so to speak. I think that really sped things along. So food for thought on that from a timeline because time is money, and you're going to be taking interest on that loan. Right? Oh, yeah. And guess what? Your bank doesn't give a shit about supply chain delays.

Craig Spodak
0:30:29
That's good for them. It's actually very good for them.

Nick Ciardiello
0:30:32
Yes. So they're telling me for construction now it's nine to 12 weeks. And obviously with me not moving in to the next month. Nine to 12 weeks? Nine to 12 weeks for the build out for mine. That's all I…

Peter Boulden
0:30:43
So you must be doing an interior remodel. Right. You're basically just an interior…

Nick Ciardiello
0:30:47
So where I'm looking to build in, I'm in a huge brand new apartment. It's called Cast Iron Lofts. It's a really big brand new building. So I'm taking an old UFC gym, hopefully, taking the UFC gym and then obviously just gutting out the inside of it because I can't really do anything on the outside. So that's why 9 to 12 weeks is the time.

Peter Boulden
0:31:09
Got it. Tell me the logic with, I mean, is that pretty common in New York going inside on the bottom of a residential?

Nick Ciardiello
0:31:16
Yes. So, like, you know, it's really hard to find space, obviously, in like Jersey City and Hoboken, because they're very popular places. Like most of these places will start at, in Hoboken, $45 a square foot to $100 a square foot.

Peter Boulden
0:31:29
Like, those are all the places I looked at.

Peter Boulden
0:31:30
Base rent, too, right?

Nick Ciardiello
0:31:31
Base rent. That's insane. So, like, for a startup, imagine $45 a square foot at 2600 square feet like oh, yeah So like luckily the place that I can't thousand a month was only $30 a square foot Because it's considered in a developmental zone where there's all brand new condo buildings being brand new parks So it's like a good location for it

Peter Boulden
0:31:51
And that's why I had to jump on this one like really fast are they giving tenant improvement allowance right now Or are they just saying take it? Yeah 104. Oh, that's good. But you probably signed a 10-year lease, I'm guessing, right? It's going to be a 10-year lease.

Nick Ciardiello
0:32:06
We didn't sign it yet. The lawyers are reviewing it right now.

Peter Boulden
0:32:08
How many options do you have, just out of curiosity?

Nick Ciardiello
0:32:11
Two five-year options.

Peter Boulden
0:32:13
Good for you.

Peter Boulden
0:32:14
Yeah. Good. I always tell people the base rent is for the benefit of the landlord, and the options are to your benefit. So the more options you can get, because you obviously don't have to exercise them, but it's a good thing to have. So, good for you.

Craig Spodak
0:32:27
And is your interest rate fixed? Do you have a construction or permanent type of situation?

Craig Spodak
0:32:32
So, you mean from the bank?

Craig Spodak
0:32:34
Yeah, for the bank, yeah.

Nick Ciardiello
0:32:35
Yeah, so I actually, I wish I signed my Bank of America one. They gave me a 299.

Craig Spodak
0:32:41
Shit, I would have told you to sign that forever. Borrow as much as possible. I know. Actually, if you listen to the last year of podcasts, we're like, borrow money, borrow as much as they'll give you.

Nick Ciardiello
0:32:50
Yeah, I mean, and so like I had it at 299, I signed the whatever, and then like last week they messaged me like it's 399 now. I was like, you didn't even tell me. Like I would have took out the money or something.

Craig Spodak
0:33:00
No, they won't tell you.

Peter Boulden
0:33:01
No, they just hyped it.

Nick Ciardiello
0:33:03
So like now I'm waiting for another one, so who knows, it's 399 I guess.

Craig Spodak
0:33:07
Does your consulting company handle your banking relationships?

Nick Ciardiello
0:33:10
So what they, they just connect, they're essentially a Rolodex.

Craig Spodak
0:33:14
They give you the names to contact and you're doing most of the stuff But for the review of that they didn't tell you like you better sign this and take as much as they'll possibly give you

Nick Ciardiello
0:33:23
So so they'll tell you that I mean the beginning they tell you this time what you're gonna need for construction for equipment They give me like a budget So like I have an Excel sheet with like ten of the budgets in for everything So I know like hey, they put out 150 for equipment, you know, and then we just kind of move money around the way. So like they did guide me through that and filling out the

Peter Boulden
0:33:42
correct things. So definitely. Craig, I think that's dangerous. $399 is great still. It's still great. Well guess what, it's great given that today, you know, as a recording, you know, 30-year money, 30-year mortgage for a house is 6.7%. So it is, that is still quote-unquote cheap money, Nick. And look, and you're putting it in the confines of your business, which is always tax deductible, you know, versus a home loan, which is, you know, it starts to phase out, right? There's a limit that you can have from your deductibility of your primary home. So this is a good thing, and you're doing the right thing. You're gonna be successful, whatever interest rate it happens, I can just feel it. So, so.

Craig Spodak
0:34:27
My first loans were at 6.5, 7% back in the day.

Peter Boulden
0:34:29
Yeah, but that's because you got started within the era of Jimmy Carter and things were super high.

Nick Ciardiello
0:34:34
Right, right, it was terrible.

Craig Spodak
0:34:35
When I built my first practice in 1920, Nick, it was really hard, really.

Nick Ciardiello
0:34:40
How many do you have now?

Craig Spodak
0:34:42
Well, no, just my, I'm saying my location, I just have one.

Nick Ciardiello
0:34:46
Oh, I thought you had multiple for some reason.

Craig Spodak
0:34:48
No, I have one large location. Peter has several large locations.

Nick Ciardiello
0:34:52
Wow.

Peter Boulden
0:34:53
Yeah. So, yeah, Craig, when you got started, those rotary, those belt-driven handpieces were so expensive.

Craig Spodak
0:35:00
No, actually, we had an egg beater handpiece. It had to crank it really fast.

Peter Boulden
0:35:04
It's just a crank.

Nick Ciardiello
0:35:05
Yeah, making fires.

Peter Boulden
0:35:07
So, what do you, just out of curiosity, I know we brought you on, you know, because you have such a prowess online and but like what are your concerns as a practice owner? Like what's in your in the head of Nick right now? What are your concerns as you're entering this next phase of life? Right? Like with taking on debt and risk and like do you know I'm probably you're probably thinking like we did back in the day like do I have the chops to do this shit by myself? You know maybe you don't maybe you do I don't know but like what's in your head right now? Yeah okay.

Nick Ciardiello
0:35:36
I was in a really good like headspace for a while And then like I'm kind of like if I don't like the practice like I just like I'll I won't work there You know I don't think they're doing the right thing so like I'm very strong personality so you want to start at new places if they don't have like The correct stuff or there's something I don't like about it and it's like at some point to me it was just like I have to do my own place because like you're not seeing eye to eye with anyone

Peter Boulden
0:36:02
in any of these places.

Nick Ciardiello
0:36:04
And the place I left in Jersey City, I got offered partnership there too, and he's a great guy, brand new office, it's really nice, but it's just like, I have to do it myself.

Craig Spodak
0:36:14
Tell me why, I wanna get into your head about the Jersey City guy. Why didn't you wanna partner in there? Or let's, this is too, it's too fresh. Why did you wanna partner with the guy that sold to Acme DSL? Why'd you wanna partner there?

Nick Ciardiello
0:36:28
So he was doing a lot of the cases that I wanted to be doing all the time. Like he was doing, he was good buddies with Larry Rosenthal. He was around the same, graduated around the same time with him. He was doing all the comprehensive veneer cases, full arches, like crazy. So I was learning a lot from him because he was essentially giving me the Larry Rosenthal treatment every single day. I was watching what he was doing chair side. And they had me fully jam packed, good fees, good reimbursements. They knew what they were doing. So like, that's why I liked that place because it was comfortable. The assistants, very highly trained, you know, they were the best of the best assistants, just everyone there was a family environment also. I mean, that was the good thing about it. You felt like there's a family when you're working there. And that's why I knew, like I thought that was gonna be a place. And not only that, I was from the town that it was in. So like, it just made sense. So like family members can come there, my high school people, anyone I knew could come there. And it was unfortunate that it just kicked out, but you know, it just had, it seemed to have everything at the time.

Craig Spodak
0:37:32
Well, you might have a chance to make that your location number two in the future. With the way things are going.

Peter Boulden
0:37:38
You may get it for pennies on the dollar, Nick. You might get it for pennies on the dollar.

Nick Ciardiello
0:37:42
Yeah, they were, that DSO, they were really aggressive with me too. They were like, we'll build you practice anywhere you want in Jersey. We'll make you a partner of the DSO. And I was like, oh, can we get this on paper? And they were like, why don't you just work for us as an associate for a little bit? We'll get that paperwork together.

Craig Spodak
0:37:59
Yeah, because we're gonna flip to another private equity, and then you can get that shit on paper with the next guy So I'm just like I'm sorry It's hot potato. Yeah So that's awesome. Yeah, I mean, so what's on what's heavy on your head right? Yeah, what else are we what are you? Well now it's just like the concerns is just like

Nick Ciardiello
0:38:14
Our pupation is gonna come in you know what I mean like I mean, that's the thing that's making me nervous now. The construction costs, I'm in Jersey City, it's not like I'm just going to a random town. Like, there's so much competition in that area that like not many dentists open up their own places around these, especially as startups. It's usually they go in with someone or they're an older dentist and this is their like, this is their final practice, they're making their beautiful retirement one. So like, that's what I'm really just concerned about, is like paying the bills, getting the patients in the door.

Peter Boulden
0:38:50
Did the site selection make you choose this or did you choose it based on the availability?

Nick Ciardiello
0:38:55
Meaning, yeah, go ahead. We did demos for the area and I think this location was like 2400 to one or something. So what they were looking for is, I guess 2001 is what they were recommending. I don't know, your thoughts on that?

Peter Boulden
0:39:11
I think that's a little anemic, meaning a little bit too fierce. I personally, look, you are not, but they're factoring in my caveat that they are factoring in all dentists in that population, which you are already like top of the top. So like some of those metrics you can't pay attention to.

Craig Spodak
0:39:26
Yeah, think about your dental school and picture the random people in your dental school. They need a different demographic than you do. You're not a normal guy. You wouldn't have risen to where you are. All the things that make you successful, you're bringing this to the new environment. I mean, I'm like the same guys as Acme DSO. I'd be like, hey, listen, I'd invest in you in a heartbeat. I saw you on Instagram, what you do, your cases are beautiful, you're a charismatic guy, you're gonna do well no matter what. And this is normal, by the way. When I built a 13,000 square foot dental office, when I moved in, I sat in my office crying, like what the fuck did I do? Like this is crazy. I had a mortgage payment that was due, like $45,000. I'm like, what was I thinking?

Nick Ciardiello
0:40:12
Did you have family members in dentistry, like your parents in? Yeah, so my parents didn't even go to college.

Craig Spodak
0:40:19
Like I'm the first one. So we've been better.

Peter Boulden
0:40:22
Better generation. Same here, Greg. Same here. Yeah. Yeah, so going back to the ratio of population to dentist, you know, I think it's fine probably in that area where you're more densely populated. You know, that's probably going to be where you're going to be. I personally like it to be north of 4,000. But again, it's different in Georgia. It's different in Florida.

Craig Spodak
0:40:44
That would put them at different locations.

Peter Boulden
0:40:45
I understand, Greg. I'm just, I'm coming, I'm taking this as a broadcasting teaching method for other people hearing it saying oh that's a good that's a good number to kind of look at. Okay. But it doesn't matter for your intensive purposes like Craig said like look at your dental school class do you think that you were a standout in that and the answer is yes.

Craig Spodak
0:41:03
Put Nick in Fandral, Arkansas where it's put Nick in Fandral, Arkansas where it's 6,000 to 1.

Nick Ciardiello
0:41:08
What the hell is that?

Peter Boulden
0:41:10
I'm going to send that to New York.

Nick Ciardiello
0:41:12
It's funny because like I work one of the offices I work at is a periodontist office and they accept like half Medicaid. So like some of the times I'm going in there and I'm doing like Medicaid crowns and then like fee for service crowns right next to each other and they're like, they give me 20 minutes to do like two, three crown preps. And I'm like, how can people practice? Like, this is insane. And it's just my vibe of me being in that Medicaid office. They only have one air water syringe in the operatory too, which is like wild to me, and it's on the assistant side. But like my, as you guys can see, like my energy in those types of places,

Peter Boulden
0:41:43
it's like, don't go very well.

Craig Spodak
0:41:45
Well, you just have to have like a, like a really long tube, like a 12 foot tube, and it could be, just roll it up and put it like, retractor things that they have in the garage,

Peter Boulden
0:41:54
all the air goes out.

Craig Spodak
0:41:55
It's crazy, man. I mean, people don't have visions for their dental practice. They, you know, it's literally like they don't stand for anything. To have Medicaid, I mean, I'm not trying to pick on the guy, but like, it's hard to have Medicaid and fee for service in the same office at the same time. Like I've been in offices, like I've been in doctor's office there's like people having a picnic, like a family of four like brought in food and they're eating in the waiting room. And I'm like, what kind of bias?

Peter Boulden
0:42:25
What's going on here?

Peter Boulden
0:42:26
It's hard. Nick, do you primarily focus on Instagram?

Nick Ciardiello
0:42:30
Yeah, I don't know, do you guys do TikTok that much?

Peter Boulden
0:42:35
We do by proxy, like I have a bit, or had a videographer who was just kind of a TikTok pro and so he got us tons of views on that. He's since moved on to bigger things, which is fine, which is cool. But, so yes, we were doing it, but not, I wouldn't say I have the skill set of TikTok.

Nick Ciardiello
0:42:58
So my always thing that I was concerned with TikTok, TikTok's a very young demographic. Exactly, so like, how many 12 year olds are going, oh mom, I want veneers, and then they're like, to me, Instagram and Facebook still has a little bit of the older crowd that can afford these types of things, so that's why I always sided towards Instagram. And TikTok, I just don't like some of the content. A lot of it is just lip syncing over a viral song or something like that.

Craig Spodak
0:43:25
So that's why I just never was really into that.

Peter Boulden
0:43:28
Yeah, look, I think the tide is changing. I think they're grabbing more and more market share. I think more of the people who have the money are gonna be maybe shifting towards TikTok, but you know, but you're right. Like, you know, it's almost like you can use the database of the people you already have in your practice, meaning find your, your ideal patient who's the kind of the avatar and the like, Hey, Hey Kathy, you know, you got a lot of money, you've done well in life, you got a lot of rich friends, you know, like this is the kind of treatment, like, what do you think of TikTok? You know, if she's like, none of my friends use that shit, you know, like that's for kids. Then you know, yeah. But to Nick's point, right, then you kind of know. But all of a sudden, you start seeing the trend. And I think as Dennis, it behooves us, the more you can kind of be on the verge, on the front end, the bleeding edge of some of these things, you can win, right? You can win in marketing and you can have cheap CPM, the cost per thousand views per second can be extra, extra low because it's based on the competition. That's why, for instance, AdWords is so expensive. The clicks on AdWords and Google AdWords, it's not called AdWords anymore, it's just called Google Ads. But the clicks for quote unquote just dentist in your area might be $30 if someone clicks on your ad. That's because it's supply and demand. There are so many dentists who have been influenced to advertise on that platform because it's quick and easy

Peter Boulden
0:44:47
and you can add up.

Peter Boulden
0:44:47
You're competing in a very competitive space. Yeah.

Craig Spodak
0:44:51
You've got videography, you're comfortable on camera, that's your special sauce right there. So to chop up a 15 second pre-roll on YouTube is going to be the most complicated.

Peter Boulden
0:45:00
You don't do YouTube, Nick?

Nick Ciardiello
0:45:02
So my plan was once the practice was 100% I signed a lease and I can start building a YouTube for the office. Because my issue now is I can't tag an office in this. Where am I sending a patient from YouTube right now? You know, that's, that's my, that was my tough thing. So like my plan was to hit TikTok and YouTube hard. Like once I get this practice location, because right now I'm not even allowed to film in my other offices because they won't let me.

Craig Spodak
0:45:29
Yeah.

Nick Ciardiello
0:45:30
They're like, you can't film here.

Craig Spodak
0:45:31
Nick, I'm just, I'm just spitballing, just spitballing here, but why don't you have a day of virtual consults? So you don't, you know, where you actually take, you know, inbound these people like, hey, interested in veneers, I want to, you know, to get to the process and do a video, put it on your IG, put it on YouTube, whatever, and then literally have them just go to your website, your own URL, book them for consults, be like, okay, live near Jersey City, great, well, in two weeks, I'll be there or, you know, you live near this location, Hoboken, whatever it is, and book them there and actually bring them in through your own virtual consults. Because you're conflating the idea that you need the console visit to be at a physical space.

Nick Ciardiello
0:46:04
You don't need it.

Craig Spodak
0:46:05
You can consult with them anywhere, like you're doing with us right now.

Peter Boulden
0:46:08
Yeah, there's good software. I use one called SmileSnap, and it's good. It's a great virtual one. There's a lot of, unfortunately, a lot of tire kickers that you get, a lot of people submitting that aren't necessarily serious about getting it.

Peter Boulden
0:46:19
But honestly, look-

Craig Spodak
0:46:20
You've got four hours of time in the car.

Peter Boulden
0:46:21
I was just about to say that, Craig. You can actually do it in the car, and you can look at their pictures and be like hey, and you send back a video that says hey Kathy looked at your pictures I looked at your yeah car consults with Nick like you know like and then record them can I use

Craig Spodak
0:46:36
this and that'd be so funny like you don't find any veneers, you're missing a front tooth, that's okay.

Peter Boulden
0:46:42
You have a space for the size of a tooth in there you can't we can't actually do veneers because you need three central incisors.

Craig Spodak
0:46:49
It's like I used to do that with Invisalign. You would come in for Invisalign. We always take a pano when they come in. And I'm like, yeah, so I'm here for Invisalign. Like, when's your last dental visit? Like, well, I've never had one. I'm 45. And you look at their teeth. There's no bones. Literally like built-in shock absorber. As they bite down, they flex out. It's just like literally moving.

Peter Boulden
0:47:09
Their VDO is variable. But look, I mean, all jokes aside, some of the time as you're, the day to start building your practice, I think what Craig is saying is not when you open your doors, right? Also, don't make the mistake, which I think so many dentists practices do, of don't take people weekly through your construction zone. No one gives a shit.

Peter Boulden
0:47:31
Yeah, no one does, no.

Peter Boulden
0:47:33
And honestly, no one wants to see how this sausage is built anyway. You do, Craig, you do because you're the dentist who's interested, right? Like the Dr. O thing you just sent me today. But like at the end of the day you get one chance to make a first impression and I think people should see and look have I ever done the construction picture? Yes. But now like I just see that people, people, you're not making an impact with them because you can't actually serve them. Meaning you're creating the demand but then you're not able to create, you're not able to fulfill that demand because you don't have a facility. So show them the wow when you're done, in my opinion. But use that time to leverage your IG and being an influencer.

Craig Spodak
0:48:12
Also have, spend the money once you get your plans done to put it into robust 3D imaging software so that you can have actual images and put them on IG, like realistic, like Revit software, we can actually model it. It'll cost you a little bit of money. They outsource that stuff to Brazil and other, you know, to Eastern Europe. But it makes it look so real. Like I had that at my office, and I built my office so long ago, there's better software now. But you can literally look inside the office, you'll have awesome pictures. People won't know if it's real or not.

Peter Boulden
0:48:41
Yeah, that would be a better tour going through and to talk about the vision of what you're gonna do in those spaces. I like where you're going with that. Versus like, hey, this is a two by four room with cement. In here is where we're gonna be doing consultations in my veneer cases. Like no one gives a shit. Do not show them that, in my opinion. But Craig, you're right. Show the vision and the pretty pop, the visualization of what you're gonna be doing, right? Because people can dream, oh, that's going to be beautiful, right? Versus like, it's two by fours. I can't imagine that.

Nick Ciardiello
0:49:09
Yeah, I can see it.

Nick Ciardiello
0:49:11
Yeah.

Peter Boulden
0:49:11
Makes sense.

Peter Boulden
0:49:12
Cool. This is awesome, dude. It's good to get to know you. I'm glad you're going through this process. I'm glad you're jumping out and starting on this journey. I know it's scary, but it's – Craig, would you bet on Dr. Nick at this point?

Craig Spodak
0:49:27
Yeah, of course. Listen, I'm the guy that's always kind of pumping the brakes for people, but listening to your why of why you wanted to buy, why you wanted to do your own thing, it's compelling. You know, it's not like, oh, you know, I can't make the money I wanna make or I wanna, it's actually, you have a unique way of viewing your profession, a unique way of viewing your practice and needs to be right for you. And, you know, and I can hear that in your voice. Many people don't have that. So you have, you can't let that die on the vine. You have to take action on it. But I also encourage you, like Peter gave you some advice. Don't say that since you don't have your own practice, you can't do things. There's so many things you can do. Like even if it's just building the vibe for it or building the demand for it or those virtual consults and sending them to patients. I mean, sending them to their patients. I would love as an owner, a lot of my doctors are influencers on Instagram. They're bringing their own patients. It's freaking awesome. And maybe even negotiate a different rate, by the way. Tell your existing doctors that you're working with, say, hey, I'm gonna be spending some significant money promoting myself. If I bring these patients completely out of your office to these cosmetic cases, can I get a blank fee increase on those?

Craig Spodak
0:50:34
Why not?

Nick Ciardiello
0:50:34
Nick.

Nick Ciardiello
0:50:35
I actually do have a higher percent at all my offices for that.

Peter Boulden
0:50:39
Nick, do you have a ton of windows in this new building, I'm guessing?

Nick Ciardiello
0:50:43
That's why, yeah, I like open space, big windows.

Peter Boulden
0:50:46
The second you sign this, is the lease signed? I didn't hear that part not not quite you signed it Maybe make the most beautiful window vinyls you've ever seen right as opposed to having paper on the windows where people like oh It's construction zone have you and your fake you're a good-looking guy people. You know your personality your Instagram like dr. Nick is coming. You know soon kind of thing like you leverage the shit out of that window space right now That'd be great and blotting it obviously it blocks the construction is the point.

Peter Boulden
0:51:15
Yeah.

Peter Boulden
0:51:16
And then you're going to pull it off when you're done, but like you're building this height.

Craig Spodak
0:51:20
Or you can put a monitor in the window. You can put a multimedia display in the window.

Nick Ciardiello
0:51:24
Why not?

Craig Spodak
0:51:25
Oh yeah.

Craig Spodak
0:51:26
Just box it in.

Peter Boulden
0:51:27
That's a good idea.

Craig Spodak
0:51:28
That's a great idea. But I do like the idea of spending the money and make the 3D renderings and make them realistic as hell. You can actually put yourself in them. They're pretty cool.

Peter Boulden
0:51:36
Well, we've taken a lot of your time. Wait Nick, one last question. One last question because I want to I want to I want to finish on why we brought you on as the influencer right? If you have any advice to someone let's say there's a doctor or someone listening regardless of the age regardless of where they live in the United States do you have any advice on getting started you know let's say someone has the grand visions of doing what you've done? Or do you have any advice, anywhere, a place to get started? What advice would you give someone listening?

Nick Ciardiello
0:52:06
My advice is first follow accounts that you wanna be like. Because by seeing those every single day, that gets your mindset, oh wow, this guy's posting six days a week, and I'm posting zero. And that's what first got me motivated, to be honest with you. And then it's just, again, it's just getting the content out there, like you just like, it sucks is like not every content's gonna be perfect, but like, when I was successful in the beginning, I was planning my posts out like a month in advance. And I was like saying, these are my five, yeah. And it was like, these five this week, these six this week, this four this week. And I film all my videos on one day. And like, that's usually what I do. Like, I don't just film it randomly. Like, you know, I do one day, I'm like, we're getting 20 videos this day. And then you have it, you use it for two or three months instead of just waiting for the time to do it. Oh, I'll do it in between patients. That's hard to do.

Peter Boulden
0:52:59
That is hard, and it never happens. So that's really genius. A film day, be very, like, you know, aggregate the things you wanna film and then do a film day on your off day, right?

Peter Boulden
0:53:10
Yep.

Peter Boulden
0:53:11
That's really, really good advice.

Nick Ciardiello
0:53:13
And get a, take photos of all your before and after cases and just keep a Dropbox with them that's what I do and then whenever I can post

Craig Spodak
0:53:21
the case I just go on my Dropbox and post it you know that's it. That's good that's good advice. Craig anything else? Yeah Nick I think you're gonna do amazing I know you're gonna do amazing but I also want to just thank you because I think accounts like yours and what you stand for what you do are just not only good for you personally, but good for dentistry. And there's a lot of people that are looking at you and saying, if that guy can do it, you know, maybe I should consider going into dentistry or changing what I'm doing. And I think it's inspirational. I love that fact that you use humor as kind of like the Trojan horse to get people into your website, into your Instagram and then show them the amazing before and after. So it's not like you're not a silly guy. You're using humor, but you're also skillful.

Peter Boulden
0:54:02
And that's really well done. Lord knows, Dennis, we need some more humor. So I love what you're doing.

Peter Boulden
0:54:05
I love what you're doing.

Nick Ciardiello
0:54:06
I appreciate that, guys. I thank you very much. And obviously, I look forward to watching you guys stuff all the time. And you guys have done a great job with the profession also.

Peter Boulden
0:54:15
Nick, you should come to our conference in Nashville if you want to take, I know you're busy running to four offices a day. I'm kidding.

Craig Spodak
0:54:24
What's the date of that?

Peter Boulden
0:54:25
It's in Nashville in the third and fourth, but honestly there's going to be so many things. I'm sorry, June 3rd and 4th. What did I say?

Nick Ciardiello
0:54:31
3rd and 4th.

Peter Boulden
0:54:32
Yeah, 3rd and 4th of June in Nashville. But it's, you know, especially in the life cycle of where you are, it's going to be really applicable for you. You're in this next phase of growth, right? And so a lot of what we talk about is the stuff that you're going to need. You're going to need a whole different skill set from being an associate to an owner, right? And you more than likely have a lot of that already, but it's a different, it's a different thing, right? You come in more as a, you know, I use the term like an assassin. You're coming in, it's like, oh, cases are loaded up, I'm the dental assassin. I'm a boom, boom, boom, implants, boom, boom, boom. It's a different, you're gonna have to different leadership, different culture, different team,

Craig Spodak
0:55:04
different, different, different. Managing hygienists get them to be iconic producers because, listen, I mean, regardless of what you're hearing in the in the chat rooms on Instagram or at Facebook, it's dental hygienists are your secret weapon. I mean, they're the powerhouses. Peter and I both have hygienists that are doing 500,000 plus in collections per year. Several, in fact. So it's like that. You have those. It's like you're armed and dangerous. It's

Peter Boulden
0:55:26
amazing. Yeah, but consider coming. We'd love to have you just because I also think it'd be a really good thing for you, like I said, in this next phase. But anyway, buddy, thanks for spending time with us. I know you got a hard stop here and I appreciate your time. I hope to connect in person one day.

Peter Boulden
0:55:42
Yeah, absolutely.

Nick Ciardiello
0:55:43
Thanks again, guys. I appreciate you guys having me on too.

Peter Boulden
0:55:46
This was great.

Craig Spodak
0:55:47
Congratulations. Keep up the great work, buddy.

Nick Ciardiello
0:55:49
All right, guys. All right, guys.

Peter Boulden
0:55:50
I'll see you.

Transcribed with Cockatoo