Unlocking Total Freedom, Redefining the Playing Field, Building for the Future and Embracing Opportunities

The following transcription was from the Bulletproof Youtube channel. Here is the https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UkG4io0NHw&t=2s

Peter Boulden
0:00:00
There's no bubble. There's always people investing in your business. Nothing's about to pop. We're not playing musical chairs where there's no seat left for you, and you just got screwed, dentist's warning. I would argue that valuations are predicated on interest rates. Most private equity buys you with leverage, and so it's not drying up. It's not popping. It just might not be the best time to sell. It's not the height of the market now. But for everyone listening, thinking that, like, oh, shit, I should act, don't listen to this shit. Build your business, focus on EBITDA, focus on cashflow, focus on all those things to become bulletproof so you don't prey victim to shit like this.

Peter Boulden
0:00:38
It's going to scare you.

Peter Boulden
0:00:40
Because we have the ground game,

Peter Boulden
0:00:42
we've actually built the practices that people aspire to create. History will prove one of us correct. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, you're not letting me finish, bro.

Peter Boulden
0:00:50
This is how you become bulletproof.

Peter Boulden
0:00:53
Bulletproof. Showtime.

Craig Spodak
0:00:55
Hey, by the way, guys, we have to start off real quick with a small retraction of what was said about Aspen. Yeah, we do, because, you know, listen, there's actually people who listen to this. I got several calls when we were looking at that company. I don't even know what the hell company that was, but that's not Aspen Dental that we were speaking about the last podcast together. Aspen Dental is not a publicly traded company. There's no-

Peter Boulden
0:01:18
That was my bad on that one.

Peter Boulden
0:01:19
Yeah, but dude, you gotta know your stuff. You're so smart, right?

Dwight Peccora
0:01:23
When we spiral-

Peter Boulden
0:01:23
You're so smart, I literally-

Dwight Peccora
0:01:24
We need topics.

Craig Spodak
0:01:25
It's not called spiral, it's called conversation. Conversation is unscripted. It's a fireside chat without a fire. A fireside chat with very structured- There's so much-

Dwight Peccora
0:01:36
Things that Pete wants us to go through.

Peter Boulden
0:01:38
Listen, stop inserting your microaggression. When you go into such an area.

Trey Tippit
0:01:45
This is us, the losers.

Peter Boulden
0:01:46
Yeah, but also, the most important thing is-

Trey Tippit
0:01:48
Screw this, I'm standing up for this.

Peter Boulden
0:01:50
No, the most important thing is you speak with such authoritative confidence that you led me down this thing. I'm like, you gotta be careful. Well, you're also easy to lead down a rope.

Peter Boulden
0:02:02
Daggers, daggers.

Peter Boulden
0:02:03
Oh, truth. I mean, truth.

Dwight Peccora
0:02:05
We all are in this group. Yeah, that was on me.

Peter Boulden
0:02:09
Watch this shit happen.

Trey Tippit
0:02:10
This is fantastic.

Dwight Peccora
0:02:11
Yeah, I was, what I enjoyed was it was like going the right direction. I was like, all right, well, let's get more data because Aspen was all over the waves where they were talking about everything going on, how they got hacked and all these other issues. And I had already, like in that conversation, I started text messaging friends of mine that I know that are involved in Aspen and I wouldn't get any feedback yet because while they were still kind of in the dark trying to figure things out. And so I started looking it up right during the podcast next thing you know, like the investor, that group, that management group and that real estate group actually was laterally investing and all this Aspen dental stuff and it just started populating up. So I followed it incorrectly. So how many times have we done that during a Google? So that's on me, but clearly they have struggled. They've gone through a lot. They've never, some of the docs that do work there, they told me, they were like, this is unreal. They didn't have access to patient charts. They didn't have access to any of their financial data. They didn't have access to,

Peter Boulden
0:03:06
I mean, it was a complete lockdown. So what's the windup it was caused just from that software hack, is that correct?

Peter Boulden
0:03:11
There was held at ransom. Yeah, that's big money. That always sells with ransom.

Dwight Peccora
0:03:16
So it's kind of like this episode's brought to you by cybersecurity insurance. It's like, you have to do it, I mean.

Peter Boulden
0:03:25
This episode brought to you by Dwight Stock Picking. So, Craig, was that retraction or did that sound like? No, I think it's fine, as long as we've pulled it back.

Peter Boulden
0:03:35
Okay, we made a mistake.

Peter Boulden
0:03:37
We made a mistake here at BP. Sometimes even even for dumbasses make a mistake We should go back to changing our name to numb nuts again Hey Dwight move your microphone closer, I want to hear that beautiful baritone you got uh-huh. Thank you Cheers No, I can't take that from you man, that's all you. Dwight, it was good here.

Dwight Peccora
0:04:02
I don't have roasts today. I thought it was too easy. Sorry, I've been building. Thought it was too easy. Is that what you just said? It was too easy before, but remember, what did I say last time? It got a little quiet, the last roast. I feel like I was boo-booing some people. I don't want to get to the point where it makes it awkward. I was supposed to visit Craig here shortly in Florida. I don't want to like-

Peter Boulden
0:04:24
No, Dwight, you know I love you, buddy.

Peter Boulden
0:04:27
That's not going to change.

Trey Tippit
0:04:28
He set up a tent for you in the backyard. He's like, yeah, survive. Come on down.

Dwight Peccora
0:04:32
Join me at the ranch, but you're sleeping out there.

Peter Boulden
0:04:36
None of us would last one night out there.

Trey Tippit
0:04:38
Oh, no.

Craig Spodak
0:04:38
No.

Peter Boulden
0:04:39
I mean, maybe, but we'll see. So let's talk about some topics that we have text to.

Peter Boulden
0:04:44
Well, let me talk about a topic that I want to talk about. Let me talk about it.

Peter Boulden
0:04:49
No, let me. So I've got my feathers ruffled a little bit lately. Oh yeah. On Instagram. On Instagram. I got my feathers ruffled because… You shared in the same ruffling, didn't you? I'm on Instagram 24.6 of every hour of the day. It is the majority of his total.

Dwight Peccora
0:05:13
Yeah, I'm actually on it right now.

Peter Boulden
0:05:14
It's facing pretending like I'm listening to you guys. I saw this video and I got super pissed off and posted, sent it to Pete and Pete posted too. So can we roll the tape?

Dwight Peccora
0:05:23
Yeah.

Peter Boulden
0:05:23
Who's our person that does post-production? It's Brady. Brady Frank. And by the way, Brady, we're calling you out because we want to give you a chance to come on here and explain yourself. Let's, Brady, you have an open invitation. Whoever's listening to this, get this to Brady. We welcome you to have a chance to rebut from the ass-kicking you're about to get from us. So if you don't mind, Peter, hold the tape.

Dwight Peccora
0:05:53
Practice, consider this a warning to all dentists. If you don't think you're ready to sell your practice, you might want to reconsider. We are in a DSO bubble. We're at the height of it right now. And that bubble's about to pop. There's tens of billions of dollars pouring into dentistry right now, but that's going to be cut off in just a few short years. Every market goes up and down, real estate, business, crypto. You want to sell when you're at the height of the market. Right now, we are in a DSO bubble. How can you have the most of the billions that are flying into the dentistry from private equity companies? You can do that right now and click on the link. I've got a calculator that will show you the ridiculous value your practice or group is worth in this incredible market where hundreds of billions of dollars are flowing into dentistry this decade alone, and it's all gonna cut off once this DSO bubble pops. Click on the link. Would love to help you through the process, see what your practice is worth, and maybe you'll be one of the halves in our incredible market in dentistry today. Consider this a war.

Peter Boulden
0:07:03
Yeah, I bet you'd love to help me.

Trey Tippit
0:07:05
Hey, all right.

Peter Boulden
0:07:06
To the two who haven't seen that, to the two who haven't.

Trey Tippit
0:07:09
Me first, me first.

Peter Boulden
0:07:10
Trey, have you seen it?

Trey Tippit
0:07:12
No, I've never seen it. Me first.

Peter Boulden
0:07:15
So I posted something that was so bad I had to take it down and repost it, but I'm like, please, I said dentist, please do not listen to this saber rattling bullshit.

Dwight Peccora
0:07:24
Oh, what an ass.

Peter Boulden
0:07:25
I'm going to leave it because he's coming back on. I was about to call him a bad name, but listen, it's fine.

Dwight Peccora
0:07:30
It's just, it's a little bit predatory, don't you think guys? Not to mention, it's just like when somebody is that inflammatory and doesn't even know. So at the beginning of it, he's like it's millions, tens of billions, it's hundreds of billions, which is truly the whole global dental market is worth like two or three billion, you know, a billion dollars.

Peter Boulden
0:07:57
You want to die in the street with your amalgamator and be looking for food scraps while the rest of us billionaires will be eating from gold goblets and drinking them.

Trey Tippit
0:08:10
Poor Amalga.

Dwight Peccora
0:08:11
He sounds like me talking about the Aspen trade on glass.

Peter Boulden
0:08:15
He's not that bad, Dwight. Trey, how does that land on you? Obviously, we're getting into the theatrics of it, right? He's talking up his portfolio. Right, obviously it's a pay dad, right? And it's something he believes in. But well, it's something he gets paid for.

Peter Boulden
0:08:33
But the bubble.

Peter Boulden
0:08:34
So call me, I'll do the DSO calculator and I'll sell you to Acme DSO and make a shit ton on your practice. I would argue that there is no bubble. This would be my counter arguments. There is no bubble. There's always people investing in your business. Nothing's about to pop. We're not playing musical chairs where there's no seat left for you and you just got screwed, dentist's warning. I would argue that valuations are predicated on interest rates. Most private equity buys you with leverage. And so it's not drying up, it's not popping, it just might not be the best time to sell. It's not the height of the market now. But for everyone listening, thinking that like, oh shit, I should act, don't listen to this shit. Build your business. Focus on EBITDA, focus on cash flow, focus on all those things to

Peter Boulden
0:09:17
become bulletproof so you don't prey victim to shit like this that's going to scare you.

Peter Boulden
0:09:22
I will say that 10 years ago, you had 10 years left.

Trey Tippit
0:09:27
That's always the case. Great.

Craig Spodak
0:09:30
And by the way, do you think Starbucks coffees are going to be more or less valuable or costly in 10 years. Like the cheapest your latte will ever be with a latte you ordered today in two or three years or five years. And studies show, by the way, that as consolidation continued to roll forward, the multiples tend to stay the same or expand. Supply and demand, as there's less practices. But first of all, I think before we get to that aspect, I really, I love what you guys started when I was on vacation. I call it team never sell because when you hate your business and your business doesn't work for you, no matter what, you have to make a grand, grand move to try to course correct it. But I'm of the persuasion and I'm thankful that there's voices that are reasonable and the three of you guys, that there's a way through this and you can actually love your business. You can make your dental business great again and never have to sell it because for all those points that you said about freedom of direction, whether that's legacy, time or relationships, the narrative is just getting to a point where it's deafening that the only way through is to sell. And if you don't, you're going to be left out and blah, blah, blah. It's really a disservice to dentistry, Brady. I want to have you on. I really do. I promise I'll be respectful, but I want to know why you think that's a good message for Dennis. I want you to answer that, what you really believe, and I want to take the economic interest out because, listen, we're all capitalists and we all want to make money. I want him to really defend that position because he's, what I know of him, he's always been a champion for dentistry. He was a nice guy.

Craig Spodak
0:11:07
He's a nice guy.

Peter Boulden
0:11:08
He's a nice guy, but what is his history? What has he done?

Dwight Peccora
0:11:11
I think that's the key component here, right? Component here right what this sounds like to me is an individual who? Sold out to a DSO and now gets a writer for every time he brings another practice onto the same So I mean have a large dental rock sounds that way to me. Do I know that I think it was just Speculating so we do know the way he's speaking though, right? So in the u.s. The way I like to think about it is people always talk about how big is Heartland, right? Because they're a billion dollar organization. That's a big number, right? But in the U.S., the U.S. dental market is about 109 billion, right? So they're like one, less than 1% is Heartland. If that helps you gain perspective on what we see as-

Peter Boulden
0:11:51
1% of the whole U.S. market, right?

Dwight Peccora
0:11:53
Of the whole U.S. market. Yeah. You're a billion dollar organization. So a lot of people are like, Heartland's coming after me. They're a whole 1%-

Peter Boulden
0:11:59
There's a 99% chance Heartland doesn't know who you are, because they're only 1%.

Dwight Peccora
0:12:04
1000%, yeah, exactly. So when you hear someone yelling that venture capital and private equity are putting in hundreds of billions, so they're buying the industry of the United States multiple times over, clearly he doesn't know what he's talking about in numbers. Clearly he doesn't understand. He's just a sales guy. And that's why it makes me feel like Brady's probably in a situation where he's given a percentage of every sale and acquisition that he brings into it a bit and that's okay, I get it, but be vulnerable. If I'm going to come on here and talk about patient prism or some other thing and I get paid for them, I should tell you guys, hey, by the way, but I think that's where I don't align with somebody yelling from the hilltops and putting all these little graphs on his Instagram and being that volatile in an industry that if I'm being honest a lot of doctors struggle on the day to day today. It's a very vulnerable profession where it's like I feel alone, I don't feel like I figured it out, the cost of my hygienist is skyrocketing, can I really do this? And then you got people just yelling like that.

Peter Boulden
0:13:08
Dwight, before we have to do another retraction next episode I want to correct you on something.

Dwight Peccora
0:13:15
Go for it. I'll pull it up too.

Peter Boulden
0:13:17
The total dental spending in the United States is 162 billion per year. Spending. 2021, right? So a couple billion isn't the entire market, like you said. Just want to be clear, I'm not trying to crush it, I'm just trying to say, like, the stats are important. 162 billion was the patient spending in the United States in 2021. And that is up to $14 billion from 2020, which was obviously a pandemic

Dwight Peccora
0:13:45
year. Oh, you're talking about spending. I'm talking total market value. So they're buying of the market value. So our market as our industry is considered $109 billion. And by 2027, it's supposed to hit $197 billion. So what a venture capital firm or a private equity firm is purchasing in portions of that industry is relative to that. So when I say that a net value of an enterprise like Heartland might be at a billion dollars or plus in equity, they're still a small portion of the total industry size.

Peter Boulden
0:14:20
Correct.

Peter Boulden
0:14:21
Does that make sense? That makes sense. But I'm just, there was something that was said it was basically like We were making fun of that that Instagram ad and basically you're saying the billions like the billions is like kind of the whole entire Market, right? So yeah now we know hundreds of billions. Oh, I didn't hear hundreds billions He said he started with tens of billions and then he said hundreds of billions and I wrote that down like this guy's crazy

Dwight Peccora
0:14:43
That's like multiple industries in one escalated fast. Well, I'm You know, I'm on a speech site and I don't make this all about the Brady ass kicking here, but I guess what he is, is he owns a thing called Total Dental Freedom, how to learn how to achieve total dental freedom. And he's always said, our systems build your practices. So it's a blueprint courses and all that to build, accelerate your financial freedom through goals and through the blueprint.

Peter Boulden
0:15:08
That is not it.

Peter Boulden
0:15:09
That is not what he's promoting right now, correct? No, no, of course not. But that's what is on his website is how to do this. And now he's just letting check out the Titanic we're sinking. It's become the DSO, right? So he's basically saying like, that's the name. So now it's no longer just be acquired by the DSO. Is that what I'm hearing? I think we need, we need to zoom out on this as well though, because you can get lost in the weeds of this one particular case, but what Dwight talked about just then was a lot of Dennis struggle with rising costs and a lot of other things facing down an economic downturn. There's, there's all sorts of things that you have that, that are on a day-to-day basis, making people struggle in the operations of their, their single practice to, to hit the 80%. And one of the sad parts of our industry is that the vast, not the vast, the biggest problem I think we face is other dentists, it's people standing on the hilltops, shouting certain things. I mean, there's some great stories of stuff that's happened in Houston and Texas of guys. I mean, think back of guys that championed anti-DSO and then they sold to one. It puts you down. It's dishonest compliments to yourself instead of actually trying to further an industry driving forward. And I think that is epitomized on the smallest level by a patient talking about another dentist, throwing another dentist under the bus. You see that left and right with dentists. Whereas you see it almost never in medicine, or very rarely in medicine compared to dentistry.

Dwight Peccora
0:16:43
And all we do is shoot ourselves in the foot.

Peter Boulden
0:16:45
So let's pivot a little bit. Not completely off topic, Trey, because I do agree with your last statement. But, you know, as Craig, we talked about, you know, how the patient experience, right, we talked about things about the patient experience and how that is an advantage to the practice that can operate ground game at a local level versus this big national conglomerates. Usually they can't have the same patient experience, ground game, relationship, all that stuff. What do you guys think in order to not bring I use this this quote on the last part we just did a second ago talking to patient prison them all I said you know we don't want to bring a knife to a gunfight let's just and and I don't want to make it in metaphorically like it's a war it's us versus them but it's competition and competition is battle you know when to okay battles better maybe not more yeah so the other person you just and and what I'm discovering is that there's to get another person. You just and what I'm discovering is that there's tools that business people use tools that that big groups use that That either we don't have the access to or a little bit more or too expensive either from a procurement perspective Technology that we haven't been exposed to because the technology platforms are focusing more on the bigger quote-unquote bigger customers, right? Right, so they're getting better tech better pricing. I'm not better not necessarily, there's no advantage in people and hiring, right? It's still competitive there. Where I'm going with this question is, where is the playing field on level? Oh, she's in so many places, guys. Well, tell me.

Dwight Peccora
0:18:14
So many places.

Peter Boulden
0:18:15
Tell me, because I think that's where you start.

Peter Boulden
0:18:16
Okay, so listen. The solution. The reason, procurement, number one.

Peter Boulden
0:18:20
Okay, tell me more.

Peter Boulden
0:18:20
You could be doing diamond plus provider level of Invisalign or be a top-notch, candid provider. And the larger DSOs for clear aligners are going to charge day one, their first case, those doctors that come out of school, get charged a less fee. Supplies, no matter how big you get, you're not going to buy those sundries and supplies as much as a DSO. Insurance, you have negotiation power with insurance companies. Those big insurance companies will pay DSO doctors more for that same exact crown than you would get paid. Technology, like patient prism, like we talked about, you know, that I asked them all, we just had a podcast with them, what percentage of your clients are DSO, a percentage of private, he says, no, 95% DSO. So they're literally using AI to listen to your calls. And all of us Jackson Poles are like, like trying to get through our calls.

Trey Tippit
0:19:16
Calls monitoring.

Peter Boulden
0:19:17
Calls. Like Sally Monagher sues calls.

Dwight Peccora
0:19:19
Yeah.

Peter Boulden
0:19:20
Like ridiculous. Right. So like they have those tools. You know, scale in the geographic footprint. You know, recruitment strategies into dental schools. Year one they're sponsoring socials that their dentists are attending and the freshman orientation. Freshman orientation brought to you by Acme DSL Lobby power lobbyists, so they actually they're going to our state Legislation and they're affecting positive change that works in their favor Those are just things off the top of my head. What about you guys? That was pretty comprehensive All right, so Greg let's let's run with that and this is a question to you having just presented all that. Now flip the script. What is the unlevel playing field of an individual practice provider of a single location? So that's an easy one. This is our greatest strength. At the end of the day, a lot of these companies, a lot of the large VSOs are private equity backed. And private equity is really smart and good, but private equity has short time horizons. They wanna make returns that are faster. So at the end of the game, at the end of the day, this business is a people business. Like our last podcast, it can't be managed by a spreadsheet, has people, humans behind it. And for those of us who are independent dentists that are listening to this, and the four of us are, we can win on the people all day long. There's nothing better than a founder that's still present and that can be part of it. Although some, some have amazing founders. We, Peter and I know one that's amazing, private equity backed. But I think the people, we can always win on that. And the investor pressure gets in the way. We don't have investor pressure. We make decisions that are based on longer- When you say people, Greg, when you say people, you, what do you mean? The dentist, the team, the actual human capital. Which then translates to kind of that patient experience, that tangible- Yeah, but they can do really well. I mean, listen, as I said in the last…

Peter Boulden
0:21:18
Dwight's name, meh.

Dwight Peccora
0:21:19
I actually believe, guys, I'm going to say something and it'll probably get me in hot water with you guys, but this is what I believe. I believe that the average dental office that's a DSO, the average DSO office, the average, better run and possibly more standardized and more adherent to the standard of care than the average independent office. Do you guys believe that?

Peter Boulden
0:21:45
Say that again.

Peter Boulden
0:21:46
Why are you clapping?

Dwight Peccora
0:21:47
Because it's so freaking true.

Trey Tippit
0:21:49
They are.

Peter Boulden
0:21:50
Okay, good. So, I got one. Trey's getting uncomfortable. Yeah. No, I agree with you from the standpoint of it is run that way. I think the standard of care is actually similar across the board. You have good, well run offices, DSO. Okay, let me phrase it to you a different way. Your wife breaks a tooth in a different city, one where you don't know anybody. Do you want her going to the local, pick your DSO, Pacific, Heartland, I mean the big boys, Lanspin, or do you want her going to the local, random private dentist that's a single dentist.

Trey Tippit
0:22:27
Single office dentist.

Peter Boulden
0:22:28
You're trying to throw that random.

Trey Tippit
0:22:29
Wait, why does he have to be random?

Peter Boulden
0:22:30
Well, random, but you're referring to the random brand. It's like he says, the range is much larger.

Dwight Peccora
0:22:38
What he's saying is the range is much larger with really high and the really low.

Trey Tippit
0:22:41
Right.

Dwight Peccora
0:22:42
And the DSOs have a very structured and scaled method, and they don't let doctors go rogue on doing procedures that they really shouldn't be doing.

Peter Boulden
0:22:49
You can bet your bottom dollar the autoclave water was changed in the last two weeks. I know some private offices, they're like, the water has to be changed. What do you mean? You have to change the water in your sterilizer?

Craig Spodak
0:22:59
No, that's a trap.

Peter Boulden
0:23:00
That's a trap. Yeah, open it up and like a green steam.

Dwight Peccora
0:23:02
What the fuck is it?

Trey Tippit
0:23:03
What?

Peter Boulden
0:23:04
Just a smart test.

Craig Spodak
0:23:05
Yeah, it's true guys.

Peter Boulden
0:23:06
I'm not kidding.

Trey Tippit
0:23:07
No, you're right.

Dwight Peccora
0:23:08
You're right.

Peter Boulden
0:23:09
And that's why I think that you're right. The procedural aspect of things are far more standardized. No argument there. Right, right. But the people aspect is not, but it has no bearing on quality of dentistry.

Peter Boulden
0:23:22
I agree.

Peter Boulden
0:23:23
I agree, Trey.

Peter Boulden
0:23:24
I'm in Trey's camp on this one.

Craig Spodak
0:23:25
Yeah.

Peter Boulden
0:23:26
I'm with you.

Peter Boulden
0:23:27
You want to see how the sides of your screens are aligned? Like Trey, you're on the left and this thing is on the right. What I'm talking about is in the private sector, you have exceptional and you have holy shit, this is scary, I can't believe people don't get sick from tuberculosis.

Peter Boulden
0:23:47
I actually do agree with you.

Peter Boulden
0:23:49
You're right.

Dwight Peccora
0:23:50
You're still shag-tarted in the office.

Peter Boulden
0:23:52
Yeah, but I've gone into offices where the… The dichotomy of care in private practice is crazy is what you're saying. Right, and in a really well-established, well-run DSO, you'll have good and fine, but you won't have, holy shit, there's systems, protocols, dental records. People looking over, yeah, I mean, there's some dentists out there that haven't had another dentist look at their x-rays since they graduated dental school, and they've been out for 30 years.

Dwight Peccora
0:24:15
I've sat across from somebody, literally, who looked at me and was like, I don't like spending all that money on those dental posts,

Peter Boulden
0:24:21
I just use paper clips.

Peter Boulden
0:24:23
Yeah, oh yeah.

Peter Boulden
0:24:24
No, no, real, I've had auto clip, that autoclave water changing story is a real thing. I talked to my pastor.

Trey Tippit
0:24:29
I've experienced that too.

Peter Boulden
0:24:30
All right, so let's, let's change the water.

Dwight Peccora
0:24:32
Right, let's, well, let me, let me add to what he asked.

Peter Boulden
0:24:36
No, no, no, no, no.

Peter Boulden
0:24:37
Just pause, pause for a second.

Peter Boulden
0:24:39
Okay, Jacob.

Peter Boulden
0:24:40
I'm not, I'm not asking that so we can go down this route of like, who is better? Where I'm going is, is like, I want to just talk about, take the care out of it for a second. Right. Craig, I think your point's valid. I think Trina disagree a little bit, but I think it's fun to talk about this. But like, where is there going to be some action? Where is there going to be some solutions solved or from a competition standpoint? Right. If we're Craig, all the things you listed, five things, right. Listed procurement, you listed insurance, you listed, listed training, education, like all those things to truly compete, then there needs to be solutions in place for that.

Peter Boulden
0:25:19
Would you guys agree?

Peter Boulden
0:25:20
Yeah, of course.

Dwight Peccora
0:25:21
Now, there's other benefits, which is what Trey was asking about, that are more relevant to the fact of choosing private practice versus entering a DSO. And it's the other side of the coin. What do you mean? What?

Dwight Peccora
0:25:35
Go ahead.

Peter Boulden
0:25:36
What do you mean by Trey's other point?

Dwight Peccora
0:25:38
What do you mean? Trey is saying if you flip, if Craig says, well, flip the other side of what Craig was saying, what are the benefits to be able to avoid that side of it and realizing what are the benefits of being able to run your own business that is competitive against that other factor? And most of it has to do with net personal worth, owning verticals, owning buildings. Like if you're part of DSO, they're not going to allow you to extrapolate the verticals or owning the lab or owning merchandising or ordering or anything.

Dwight Peccora
0:26:04
You don't have the freedom of direction.

Dwight Peccora
0:26:06
You don't have the autonomy, the freedom of direction and the ability to kind of scale your own personal net worth based on the verticals of your building that normally would be paid otherwise. Their models are very tight and very structured. So they're not gonna let you just kind of jump out and do this as well.

Peter Boulden
0:26:21
Yeah, the entrepreneurialism is handled by them. They got it. They're like, we can have this from here, sit down,

Peter Boulden
0:26:26
sit down, we got this.

Dwight Peccora
0:26:27
Right, and I think the other item that you all talked about, which relates to personal fulfillment, happiness, all those other things, relates that your personal horizon can be in alignment with your business horizon, which is not always the case with, hey, I wanna grow and scale and push this, at this point in time, I wanna settle, at this point in time, I wanna sell. That usually is alignment on a personal side and it serves my personal need. Whereas when you grow with the DSO, you're right. They're going to sell you every three to five years based on new private equity company and the rules are going to change and the dynamics are going to change. And so those are some of those other items that, I mean, I wrote down when you were asking some of that for sure. Tax strategies, verticals, distributions versus pay, all that other component, right? Those are the pieces, right? How do they balance is the true question, right?

Peter Boulden
0:27:14
Yeah.

Peter Boulden
0:27:15
What you're asking?

Peter Boulden
0:27:17
Yes.

Dwight Peccora
0:27:18
What are the solutions on that back end?

Peter Boulden
0:27:19
You know, I don't, I'm not saying I have the solutions. I'm just saying, I think the point of me asking is to A, just throw something in the sand. I know it's obvious to a lot of people, but like just put, put it down and, you know, put it down on the battlefield. Here are the,

Peter Boulden
0:27:34
here are the distinct disadvantages I have in this battle. And like now I need to go and solve or we need to go and solve for that.

Trey Tippit
0:27:43
I like where you're going, Peter.

Peter Boulden
0:27:43
I like where you're going.

Craig Spodak
0:27:44
Yeah.

Craig Spodak
0:27:44
And also I think if we're being, uh, sorry, I have to use the term intellectually honest here, we are all speaking from a place of business privilege in that we all have grown to a certain level of scale and we have benefits afforded to us individually, not even using each other, that help us mitigate the competitive advantage to the DSO. So my- I mean, Craig, we felt passionate about the, you know, like the BP alliance and we were all kind of talking about just like the holding hands and make us stronger together and like all that stuff. But like, unfortunately, it proves to be too daunting from a legal and state level. The complexities to execute that are millions and millions of dollars. You spend a lot of money with attorneys to say like, okay, we're going to buy it. Well, if you buy into them, you're going to have subordinate to their loans and holy shit. I'm like, so we're just trying. And honestly, at the end of the day, their advice was just do it the way it's always been done. That's just do it that way. You'll make a lot of money. And it was like, that's not, that's what we started this conversation as. So it's something still needs to be done though. Right, but I think a point of it is, Craig, as opposed to if all that shit is too complicated, like there's got to be easier ways to just give everyone the same weapons.

Peter Boulden
0:29:00
Yeah.

Peter Boulden
0:29:00
Right, that's it. That's it. Don't bring a knife to a gunfight and just make it level. And so I think that's where I'm going with that whole bubble popping and DSO's going to eat your lunch and better do it now because all the money is going to dry up like this is the full Landing of the plane of like that's all bullshit, but I think there are problems to solve Yeah, but it's not go run for the hills It's not run for the hills and it's definitely not surrender because a bubble is popping that sure shit is not the answer

Dwight Peccora
0:29:29
So but that's where Brady Frank is in his in his own horizon, right? There's no worse and that's where he's at. I mean, I even looked his stuff up. I mean, clearly he's bought and sold multiple dental groups and now this, you know, the Freedom Dental Group was a co-op of 250 dental practices, which y'all are talking about, same type of mindset for higher valuations and negotiating power. And I haven't researched enough, but then the next step would probably be sell that at a very high multiple and go down that road. And that's why he's on that back end of that horizon. So it's just dependent on where you're at. But right now the ability is to have the ability to have autonomy, to decide that freedom of direction. Where do you wanna go? Where does your family need you to go? What do you wanna do? The best, best tool for me in dentistry is this pod, Masterminds, collaboration. You all hold me to grow, to build, to maintain quality of care while also doing that, and to build incredible culture,

Peter Boulden
0:30:29
right? All those components, that's where the game is. Dwight, I don't know if we hold you. Here's what I'm going to give you a compliment. We don't hold you to it, is that you will hear something and audit where you are, and then you will deploy action based on that, right? So it's not that no one, anyone's holding

Peter Boulden
0:30:43
you to it. You're just a human who takes action based on the new information that you now have.

Dwight Peccora
0:30:49
That's what we got to do.

Peter Boulden
0:30:50
Full stop.

Peter Boulden
0:30:51
And most don't.

Peter Boulden
0:30:52
Most don't.

Peter Boulden
0:30:53
Many people do not take action. And they say things like, well, not done yet. You know why? Because I'm a perfectionist. I just can't get it perfect. And as we know, perfection is the enemy of execution. That's just an excuse to say, I'm not ready to take that chance. So sometimes, for instance, Facebook's thing with, what's the guy's name on Facebook?

8
0:31:14
I don't know why I'm drawing a blank. Zuckerberg.

Peter Boulden
0:31:16
The robot, Zuckerberg, right? He was like, let's move fast and break things, was the motto at Facebook for a while. And it's basically just giving them full, full car launch freedom to just run and go and take risks in these moonshot things. And it was a pretty cool thing to do, right? And I think he pulled that back a little bit, but like, I would say as an industry, we are the exact opposite.

Dwight Peccora
0:31:36
Absolutely, yeah, yeah. I can't tell you how many questions I get Absolutely. Yeah.

Dwight Peccora
0:31:42
Yeah.

Dwight Peccora
0:31:43
I can't tell you how many questions I get when I have docs come in, we're collaborating here at my central office and like my logo for my management company, literally underneath it says progress over perfection. And people are like, I mean, they're dumped on it. They're like, what do you mean? Do you mean your margins are open? Like, no, you idiot. Like it means, it means growth. It means focus and understand that we, you know, in order to grow, you must first break, you must change what it is that you've thought is status quo and transition that. And sometimes we don't have all the answers. Sometimes it requires a step of faith and realizing that you've built a good enough team around them, everybody on your team or yourself. You have enough grit to push through. When you fall flat on your face, you get up and go. But what I fear is, is exactly right what you're saying. I see young dentists who are just graduating out. They're in their 20s, they're in their early 30s, and absolutely in life, for the amount of money you have access to make as a dentist, right? And the walls are up, it's hard to become part of this profession, all the things it takes, right? The barriers of entry are high. On top of that, they're not willing to take risk because they're scared, and in their 20s and 30s, now is when you do it, you double down. Some of us are doing it in 30s and 40s. Hey, I turn 40 tomorrow, by the way. And so as we keep pushing along.

Peter Boulden
0:32:53
You're getting early birthday.

Dwight Peccora
0:32:54
Yeah, tomorrow's my 40th.

Peter Boulden
0:32:56
Damn.

Dwight Peccora
0:32:56
So you get to that point, you keep pushing, pushing, pushing, why not? You've got the ability to do it. And I can't tell you how many other industries, how many professionals in other industries across the board, even just in healthcare, forget other industries are saying, the profit margins we're dealing with, the opportunity risk is so low to go and just say, hey, let's just do it. The risk is really not that bad, but we're scared to death because it has to be perfect. Right. And therefore we can't move forward. And that's where I struggle the most, is seeing that in so many people. But that's why I bring up the mastermind and bring up us interacting and just spending time together because I think I sit here and I listen and when somebody, even on the last office hours, Peter, you cracked into something that I've had set as a protocol for a while and how I pay my doctors those things. And what I love about it is you're like, hey, you were coming down on me because you really wanted to make sure that Dwight has figured that process out from A to B to C all the way down to Z to understand, hey, I've actually worked through this. I understand it and why. I have a why. But maybe I need to work on it a little bit. That's what makes us better. But I'm with you, like, you do have to implement. You've got to make it happen or else what's the point right? It was just a bunch of talking heads saying let's just go about it and you know Remini reminisce or talk trash about how the good old days used to be or dentistry was better back in the day And now everybody's just trying to take advantage of of us I think that's why consolidation is happening so quickly in our industry is because people are just either a Scared to change and create a risk or be they just think the hill is too high to climb. I just can't do this. So there's your solution

Peter Boulden
0:34:28
There is one challenge the status quo, correct? Yeah, but that's so like but it's just so like No, I don't I'm not saying I don't have the ability to give solutions right now It's point of me bringing that up honestly was just identify the problems and then like let's let it marinate and like eat the elephant one bite at a time. It's really all I was doing and maybe we maybe we dissect some of these in future pods but I think the conversation was just spirit of conversation was just like let's just talk about this let's talk about this battlefield for a second and maybe battlefields the wrong metaphor like but this chessboard let's talk about this chessboard right and do we have the right pawns pawns Kings Queens whatever's on chess I will play chess I wish this justice justice for smart people yeah come on bro you'll be a great chess player man he would it's for sure you would man I'm gonna flip the board do I be like god you nerd stop my kids win though I'm like no no you will beat me one day but not today we play all the time of like you've got to do it.

Dwight Peccora
0:35:40
You've got to learn it.

Trey Tippit
0:35:40
You'd be good at it, Pete.

Peter Boulden
0:35:41
Thanks, Dwight. So I'm kind of going through other topics, right? Because there's so many things. I'm looking at the list of other topics I want to talk about into our podcast. And there's so many things, but they're not very good tangents from today. But I will tell you- I'm looking at the heart of it. Okay, well, I've been studying other companies outside of dentistry just as a little bit interesting thing. What would you guys say is the most impressive company on the planet? That's so easy. Tesla. What? No. Tesla, SpaceX. Okay, from a tech standpoint, maybe. No, but overall change to humanity. Why? Because they put batteries and attached them to the world.

Peter Boulden
0:36:30
Okay, that's SpaceX, that's not Tesla.

Peter Boulden
0:36:32
Okay, well I put it together, it's just Elon Musk's companies. Elon Musk at all. The umbrella, it's the umbrella.

Trey Tippit
0:36:39
All of Elon.

Peter Boulden
0:36:40
All of Musk's.

Dwight Peccora
0:36:41
I mean, what are you saying, largest, just, just, like, control power, revenue, what?

Peter Boulden
0:36:46
Look at the size, look at the logistics, look at the people, look at the employees, look at the customer service, the whole thing. Amazon.

Peter Boulden
0:36:55
Amazon?

Peter Boulden
0:36:56
Okay. All right. Okay. What does everybody say?

Dwight Peccora
0:37:00
So, Trey, what do you say?

Trey Tippit
0:37:01
Ford trucks?

Trey Tippit
0:37:02
Ford trucks.

Trey Tippit
0:37:03
That's right.

Peter Boulden
0:37:04
The antler company.

Trey Tippit
0:37:05
Cattle guards.

Trey Tippit
0:37:06
I'm about diesel. I'm about diesel. You have to go with tech because of the impact on what Craig said.

Peter Boulden
0:37:13
It's the impact on humanity long-term. Well, what is it?

Peter Boulden
0:37:16
Well, that's not, that's not.

Peter Boulden
0:37:17
Okay, well listen, this is Trey's thought. You don't have to tell me what you think of Trey's thought. What's your thought? Yeah, fuck you guys, it's my thought. Tell me, go, get in the house. I would agree with you, I would go with SpaceX.

Trey Tippit
0:37:29
I think that's the coolest system.

Peter Boulden
0:37:30
Okay, we've got one for SpaceX, one for Amazon. Peter, what's yours, Pornhub? Go ahead, let's hear it. Yeah, exactly, it's super impressive. It's changing humanity, all in the palm of our hands.

Peter Boulden
0:37:43
Okay, go ahead, come on.

Peter Boulden
0:37:46
Delta, Delta Airlines, I'll tell you why.

Dwight Peccora
0:37:49
No.

Peter Boulden
0:37:50
Can I tell them why? Can I tell them why? I know you're going with it. Why? Because Peter is, we all have six human needs, Peter's top four are significance, and Delta decided to send Peter. No, that's not why Send him like this invite only like extra black plutonium cars But whatever the hell it was was like in rich uranium card you wave it and people bow to you kryptonite killer Yeah, it's a kryptonite. It's a kryptonite card. All right, if you go, I was going to be one for free

Dwight Peccora
0:38:18
That's not in Atlanta. All right, so look and that's what I think it deals with It deals with, it deals with.

Trey Tippit
0:38:24
We don't know the Delta.

Peter Boulden
0:38:25
So yes, go ahead.

Craig Spodak
0:38:26
What do they do by the way?

Peter Boulden
0:38:27
Amazon moving boxes.

Trey Tippit
0:38:29
That's logistics.

Dwight Peccora
0:38:29
They're great at logistics, right?

Peter Boulden
0:38:31
Moving boxes around, but Delta is logistics plus people, right? Plus customer service, plus highly, highly technical pieces of equipment called jet engines. And plus, plus they have, you know, it's just, I don't know, just this revolutionary. Here's my question. How many Delta boxes are on your front patio right now? Let's be honest. None. All right. Why Delta? Unpack it. Why Delta? Because A, to be able to, so 80,000 employees, okay? Not just in the business of moving people. Yes, I know, but it's moving people on extraordinarily complex machinery.

Dwight Peccora
0:39:11
Okay.

Peter Boulden
0:39:12
Okay? On a system, connecting people through different cities. I'm just saying from a logistics standpoint.

Peter Boulden
0:39:18
You're saying logistics? Amazon is 5 million. Amazon owns its own logistics company. But they're moving boxes that don't have to get there on time and that aren't connecting other cities. There's people moving boxes too. There's robots and everything. There's 1.5 billion employees. So you're saying that you'd rather, if you could pick one theater, not to own, you would own Delta over Amazon? No, it's not a stock.

Peter Boulden
0:39:42
I just think it's impressive.

Peter Boulden
0:39:43
But it's the most impressive company. What was the question you asked? What's the best company in the world?

Peter Boulden
0:39:47
No, what's the greatest company in the world?

Peter Boulden
0:39:49
The greatest company in the world means it's also synonymous with if you had to pick one company to invest in, what would that company be, in my mind? That's not synonymous, in my opinion.

Trey Tippit
0:39:58
Okay, I love this company.

Peter Boulden
0:39:59
I don't have any Delta stock, Craig. You guys, all I'm trying to do is ideate the podcast and get something and draw a parallel, and you guys are literally just stepping on the throat

Peter Boulden
0:40:11
of the greatest.

Dwight Peccora
0:40:13
Well, it's because you live in Atlanta, so Delta means a lot to you, right? Like, I get it, and that's, you know, here it's United, but would you take United? I don't know, like.

Peter Boulden
0:40:23
No.

Dwight Peccora
0:40:24
You get the value, that is the largest hairline, right?

Dwight Peccora
0:40:26
Large revenue.

Peter Boulden
0:40:27
Let's get off of it,

Peter Boulden
0:40:28
because now people are like,

Craig Spodak
0:40:29
this is not really cool.

Peter Boulden
0:40:31
You just don't like that we don't like your answer. Look, I'm a big enough boy to say, fine, fine. Everyone's entitled, but I still believe it.

Dwight Peccora
0:40:38
I thought you were going to say like Apple

Dwight Peccora
0:40:40
or going down the road.

Peter Boulden
0:40:42
Those are all tech,

Peter Boulden
0:40:42
like it's easy to create tech, tech. It's harder in dentistry, where I was going is like, the thing in dentistry is it's hard. We have a clinical science that's wrapped around a patient experience, that's wrapped around all the things of being an entrepreneur and growing and things. And so sometimes you can just learn from studying other companies. But we can't do that from studying Tesla. You can learn the future. Of course we can. Of course we can learn how to adopt. Says the trailblazer. I love that. No, no. I mean, listen, I mean, what Scott with Scott Galloway called… Oh, called you the Tesla of Dentistry.

Peter Boulden
0:41:18
So you have an affinity to something

Peter Boulden
0:41:20
that you can accolade for. No, but why would he say that? Why are your practices more like Tesla? I'll tell you why. Because you don't have to talk to a human. You could pay on your website, use technology that most people are like, holy shit, I've never seen this. Most dentists are still choking their patients with impression material, taking impressions of their descending palate and half of their trachea. You ever pull out an impression that's nine inches long, like the back of their throat? We're scanning people. Like that to us- Craig, is that what you're saying is nine inches long again?

Peter Boulden
0:41:49
Yeah.

Trey Tippit
0:41:50
Keep going.

Peter Boulden
0:41:51
The back of your throat.

Peter Boulden
0:41:52
That's how it works.

Peter Boulden
0:41:53
I've measured it. Anyway.

Peter Boulden
0:41:55
So Dwight, you're building- I'm going to get off this topic because-

Peter Boulden
0:41:58
Go on, please. Yes.

Trey Tippit
0:42:00
This is turning into a-

Trey Tippit
0:42:01
You're building an office right now.

Dwight Peccora
0:42:02
You're building an office right now. Craig, I'm correlating it to what you're saying. Did you consider, or are you considering going receptionless? My receptions are smaller, I would say, than I would have originally probably started building because of the fact of I choose to create more flow and a lot more of it is digital. Most patients are checking in in the parking lot or before you get there. So no? Yes or no? I said I said they're smaller. You just dropped salad on us.

Dwight Peccora
0:42:34
I said okay so what do you want me to say? I said no to receptron. It's smaller than before.

Peter Boulden
0:42:43
So listen let me just can I have a little bit of I have I have a rare moment. I don't think I'm building reception lists.

Dwight Peccora
0:42:54
And I said, no, but it is smaller than it was before.

Peter Boulden
0:42:57
Okay, no, it's fine. I'm not building reception lists. So Tesla, you can actually, I've never bought a Tesla before, but from what I understand, you go and you show up and the car is there. You don't speak to a person and all this stuff. No, you walk up to it. You walk up to it and that's your car and something that you don't even know. But the point I'm trying to make is that patients don't want to speak to the receptionist either. They don't want to go and review their medical history and have someone there and be like, but by communicable diseases, what does that mean? Like medical history is embarrassing for some people, especially Trey. So I think the most important thing is that if people can skip having a human in certain processes, that's a better experience. Maybe not up until the dentistry, but you know, intelligent AI handle post-operative calls, it provides more value, ability to make appointments without having to call and play phone tag. So I do think that we as dental professionals can learn a lot from a tech company. I really do. Are you saying that the rare moment? No, the rare moment is still in my head. I'm gonna launch it at the right time. That wasn't my question.

Dwight Peccora
0:44:03
Are you telling me that eventually, not necessarily that you won't have a reception room, because you do have to have a space, in my opinion, for family and such to wait, right? If they're having a station or something, does that agree?

Trey Tippit
0:44:14
Somewhere to wait.

Peter Boulden
0:44:14
Huh?

Peter Boulden
0:44:15
Yeah.

Peter Boulden
0:44:15
Yeah.

Peter Boulden
0:44:15
Yeah.

Trey Tippit
0:44:15
Somewhere.

Dwight Peccora
0:44:16
Are you saying a receptionist? No, no, no.

Peter Boulden
0:44:19
There's a person that greets you and says, welcome Mrs. Jones, you see, of course you need to have a reception area because unless you're

Dwight Peccora
0:44:29
just going to be on time all the time. Craig, do you ever see that happening in your practice? Because you're very big on person to person touch. Like you didn't even want your front desk to be wearing scrubs like in the back. You wanted them to be dressed up all nice because you wanted to feel like a spa reception feel. So I'm interested in hearing if that dynamic has shifted over time.

Peter Boulden
0:44:48
Like I'm curious. Yeah, so again, we're cutting with broad brush strokes. I think if you have a certain type of dental practice, like the average dental practice, where you're just doing more basic restorative. And I actually think, I see dentistry hybridizing into a whole bunch of models. One model being like almost like the 10 model in New York, where flexible hygiene, it's all about ancillary preventative services and a little bit of restorative. My practice is like really a lot of heavy gear restorative larger treatment plans like some of y'all's as well And that I think is a different answer depending on the model So I think just like super cuts and Starbucks fill a great need I see the majority of dental practice being like Commoditized like that like a Starbucks like we can go in for a predictable cleaning and a predictable resubmit Those practices will go reception list before our practices like maybe mine do, if that makes sense. I think it would be an added value. I saw a statistic and I can't find it now, but basically, and this was directly post-COVID right after it, but it was basically like took a survey of people and was like, would you rather check in with a tablet or would you rather meet and greet the receptionist at the front? And it wasn't a close sec. I mean, it was, it wasn't even a close. It was like 70%. I'll have to pull it up and find that stat, but it was like 70% of people would actually prefer to interact with a tablet. I read that, it is a step further than that. They would rather wait in line to register with the tablet and avoid no line with the person. Oh yeah, maybe you're right.

Trey Tippit
0:46:20
Is that serious?

Peter Boulden
0:46:22
So that being said, like Dwight, that's why I was asking you, you're in the active phase of building, right? I'm actually in active construction right now in another office as well, like cutting concrete and all that stuff. And I had the opportunity to look at the floor plan and be like, hmm, I know that that's what model said or the survey said that Trey and I are looking at. But I'm still stuck maybe in the old school ways of like, I just feel like there needs to be a human to see. And I kept – now, I did shrink the size, like Dwight's saying, shrink the area down in which people congregate. Craig, you have about what, 4,000 square feet in your room? Yeah, I think it's 47,000 square feet of this afternoon.

Peter Boulden
0:47:00
I was about to say.

Trey Tippit
0:47:01
Yeah.

Peter Boulden
0:47:02
49,000. Craig literally can land a helicopter in his waiting room.

Dwight Peccora
0:47:06
It's an option.

Peter Boulden
0:47:08
Craig, all right, let me ask you this. In hindsight, try to not speak from a conformational bias. In hindsight, would you go smaller? I mean, listen, I don't. Yes or no? I wouldn't do anything different.

Peter Boulden
0:47:20
All right.

Peter Boulden
0:47:21
Because. No, because I think redesigning my office now and I'm expanding and to answer your question directly, a lot of the area that was made for reception is gonna be chewed up by lab. So it's going to be smaller, yes. Okay.

Dwight Peccora
0:47:35
How did I know?

Peter Boulden
0:47:36
How did I know what I was going to need? Of course you didn't. Of course you didn't. I'm just saying now with the data that you have, the information that you have, you have done it differently. I think that's how we help people who are listening to this pod. But that was 10 years ago, so everything's different in 10 years.

Dwight Peccora
0:47:49
Hey, well, with that being said, I built, for example, my large 10,000 square foot Missouri city office. You all remember that one? I've now added six operatories to that. I've already done renovations to it.

Peter Boulden
0:48:04
Wait, what'd you start with and what do you have now?

Dwight Peccora
0:48:06
16, I'm going to 22.

Peter Boulden
0:48:08
So what spaces did you chew up?

Dwight Peccora
0:48:10
I am now moving the lab, or half the lab out. All my operations wing, that used to be HR, accounting, operations in general, has now moved to central offices.

Peter Boulden
0:48:23
Have you added on exterior square footage or are you just doing interior remodel? No, it's all interior remodel.

Dwight Peccora
0:48:27
So I mean, that's me and it's 2023 and we moved in in 2022, like in the middle of COVID March 2020. 2020.

Peter Boulden
0:48:34
Yeah.

Peter Boulden
0:48:35
So in three years.

Dwight Peccora
0:48:36
So it's been three years and we've already worked on the building two more times since

Peter Boulden
0:48:40
we moved in. Yeah. My advice to those that are building, they're all building, by the way, Dwight, you included, is I would float my floor because you can put a sub floor in so you could like literally, there's a system where your floor is maybe, I don't know, eight inches above the congress last.

Craig Spodak
0:48:58
It's six.

Peter Boulden
0:48:59
Yeah, you're right. You're right. Six inches, whatever. I would recommend highly that you do that because once your plumbing is in, it's really hard to reconfigure it. But if you can lift your floor and junction onto your air, water, vacuum, and suction, I mean suction and air, water, you can actually refit and take your admin spaces out because that's just huge. I would absolutely do that. And if you're building something, like think about the future, think about your private office becoming an op and put a T on your plumbing, put a T and put it in the wall and like just mark it. You can mark it with a junction box and the inside of the junction box, you can write future op or whatever, but think about the future.

Dwight Peccora
0:49:41
Well, yeah, and the same way that we made all hygiene ops, this was in 2020, all hygiene ops are ready to do general dentistry work. Yes, yes, yes. And, you know, and then just recently they accepted in Texas legislature, Texas PDA, for our hygienists to give anesthesia and our assistants to start filling, filling, like we're already going, and that's Texas, which we thought we were going to be the last state, by the way, that any of that would happen. And clearly that's moving quickly. Now, if that's happening in Texas, that's going to spiral pretty quickly throughout. But I think that's what I had to build something that was prepped for that. It was built, is built for mid-level providers. And that is the understanding.

Peter Boulden
0:50:16
So I think it's just important for everybody to remember there's the business you're in and the business you're becoming. And there's always there's always something that's evolving. There's and you have a market will tell you what's your, what's your validity and what's your, this is not a rhetorical question.

Craig Spodak
0:50:32
I'm about to ask you guys, you guys all know, we all know a lot of the same dentist.

Peter Boulden
0:50:36
We also know a lot of different dentists.

Peter Boulden
0:50:39
Okay.

Peter Boulden
0:50:39
We talk and we probably mentor some of those people. Have you ever, this is, this is not rhetorical. Have you ever heard someone say, you know, really just built this office too damn big. Like someone who got in trouble building, building something bigger than their dreams, right? Bigger than what their dreams didn't match the reality of putting patients in the chair, so to speak, getting providers. Or and OK, table that for a second. And then how many times have you heard someone saying, really need more space?

Peter Boulden
0:51:09
Well, it's also a little confirmation bias.

Dwight Peccora
0:51:11
No, it's not.

Peter Boulden
0:51:12
Again, again, Craig, I'm just asking. I'm not saying it doesn't confirm any of my biases. I know what I like. I'm just I'm saying, like, if there's a disproportionate amount of people, then would it be wise to advise people like, look, go big because chances are you're right. Or go with your your your preconceived notion about what you can do because chances are you are right. Would never say that to somebody.

Dwight Peccora
0:51:39
You wouldn't? Yeah. Everybody that ever told me is you're going to build too small and you're not going to build fast enough. Yeah, but we can. That has been the case for me every time. Now, given-

Peter Boulden
0:51:49
You're not the average person, Dwight. I get it.

Dwight Peccora
0:51:51
You're not the average person. But with that being said, I have throttled myself on these new locations to not build out a full 10,000 plus square foot location location everywhere, I prefer to have more multiple locations at a smaller build, specific 10 ops and not going over that. Because I think the 10 is that cap of healthy, like extreme, right? I think at 20 ops, it's a central hub, it's a totally different beast, it's got all the specialists, all that. It's a different model, right? But I've had to throttle myself back, even in this office, I keep telling myself it's too small. But like, what it takes to realize, hey, this is what I'd like to continue to scale. And once we're done here, we're done here. There's only so much capacity that can be managed here. That means create another location, right? So after a while, you do get to know your model enough to be able to say, all right, this is what works. But I, every time I've ever built, it was always too small and never got enough.

Peter Boulden
0:52:45
We're embarking on a dangerous conversation though.

Trey Tippit
0:52:47
All right.

Peter Boulden
0:52:48
Trey, Trey, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Got it. Applying it to a 22-month model of Dwight's that then scales back to a 10-op model, I would say when you're talking about the 80% of dentists out there that are solo practitioners, they build one office, and they build one office throughout their entire career, the vast majority of people are going to say, I wish I had built bigger. They're going to get the capacity, and the analogy that you use when you're talking to someone is you're gonna, you get new patients indefinitely every month. You're pouring coffee in a coffee cup, the coffee cup never gets bigger, and all you do is spill the coffee everywhere. So it's rare, although there are the, you know, in this in this circle and the people that we're talking about that tend to have have higher visionary or bigger visions, whatever you want to call it. Higher autonomy. And those are the people that might, you know, over build and do things like that. They're also the people that may, as a Dwight going, man, I should have built bigger, 22

Peter Boulden
0:53:43
wasn't enough.

Peter Boulden
0:53:44
But I think that the general consensus for the average dentist out there is yes, bigger is a better proposition because we're not talking 10,000 square feet to the solo practitioner typically. One more op makes a huge difference when you're talking about four to five, five to six.

Peter Boulden
0:54:04
Okay, and Craig, I hear you. You're one of the dangerous road. This isn't advice. This is just, this is just what guys shoot and shit.

Peter Boulden
0:54:12
I know it is, but there's some people that want to be like, yeah, and that's what Dwight said and Trice said, and this is great. And I just think that when we look at the statistics of like 80% of dentists or 90% of dentists saying that they're at emotional and physical burnout, suicide, drug abuse, all that shit that we always talk about. This model that I built almost fucking killed me, guys. It almost drove me to the breaking point. And yes, as I sit on the other side of this adversity, I became stronger, I became bulletproof, for lack of a better word. Now in the hindsight that I have, I would say, yeah, fuck yeah, I would have done it bigger. But that's disingenuous to what it was. Yeah, had I asked you. All of us, when we look back, yes, I'll do it bigger. But for each one of us, and all your personal stories, it almost wrecked each one of us, Pete. It almost wrecked you. It almost wrecked me. All right, let's – Craig, that's actually very – I stand kind of corrected in that, and I totally agree with you. It just depends on the timeline, and we're all privileged to be sitting here saying,

Peter Boulden
0:55:17
oh yeah, Bill Biggert, that's all we ever hear. But you're right. You're right. It is a dangerous conversation.

Peter Boulden
0:55:22
It's dangerous advice. And those that fail, by the way, retreat into the silence of their own misery. They don't reach out to us. They don't say, hey, by the way, I'm ready to blow. We get some of that. So it's bias, not in our own bias. But it's like, when you're in the hospital, all you see is sick people. You think the whole world is sick And they get out of the hospital everybody's healthy so the people that fail move out of our lives They withdraw and they don't they don't reach out the successful people like talk. It's funny Craig I've been kind of listening to a bunch of Ryan holiday stuff right now Just like stoicism stuff is because I don't know kind of felt like I needed it right now and what you're talking about like People not asking for help because they look at it as as a failure I need help from someone and and the stoic view is asking for help is actually is actually refusing to give up right which I was like and it's such a cool it's it's a cool shift of mentality like asking someone for help is just I refuse to stop this process I want

Peter Boulden
0:56:21
I want to help not right but I need your help

Peter Boulden
0:56:24
but the but the act of like looking back and again, I'm not I'm not like this positive psychology guy That's like never look back But like it's just unfair to look back at anything with the optics you have now and live with regret Because isn't that the whole isn't that what wisdom is though, bud? It is but like would I have built this bigger? Yeah, but when I did it I was like what the hell am I doing? Right when you were in the rose of the battle, of course you wouldn't but like now that you're over the over the hump We can skip off As long as we as long I just want to do in the walk we said it fits who you are

Dwight Peccora
0:57:00
And if you took all of us away I'm gonna double down on this if you took all of us away And you asked the builders that I just walked my building with this morning They're going to tell you every time we build a dental office, they said it was too small. Because it is. Because people want to go to nice new spaces and that the general market requires nice new dental offices and people who double down and invest in their business end up growing their practice.

Trey Tippit
0:57:27
Okay?

Peter Boulden
0:57:28
Right. But Dwight, Dwight, Dwight, there's another layer of bias. You're asking builders. Builders don't meet average dentists. They meet dentists who are entrepreneurial. So amongst entrepreneurial dentists, yes, they wish they went bigger. Yes, 100%.

Dwight Peccora
0:57:42
We should encourage.

Peter Boulden
0:57:43
But we don't have just an entrepreneurial listener. We have other listeners that are striving for survival. The vast majority of people listening to this pod are strivers.

Dwight Peccora
0:57:52
They're wanting to do something more than just.

Peter Boulden
0:57:55
Well, then let's take a pulse. Comment below if you're listening to this on YouTube. If you're feeling like you should be going bigger or you're worried that you went too big or how do you feel? Let's get a measurement of how because there's other people like I shouldn't have done this Right and that was me for a long time All right, dude Any any of you for any of you three at a certain point in your career not just for a day But for months or maybe even a year say what the fuck did I do? Holy shit. I'm over my skis Yes, or no. Yes. Okay. No, no never no never. Okay. Okay. So, Trey, you and me, can we switch the grids? Let me get in the train. We'll put you in the train. Losers on the right, winners on the left. Awareness is what's going to vault us way. I'm going to call bullshit on Peter, by the way, because Peter, you were in a bad state. Why was that bad state? What was that period? Peter's blue period? Well that was embezzlement, partnership breakup, premature son I was always in the hospital for, and I was the main provider in all those three offices that I had. Okay, so at that point if I was said Peter should you have gone bigger? It would have been a fuck yeah I should have gone bigger during that

Dwight Peccora
0:59:25
time? That's a very, that's a very, you can't look at it in the micro and they've

Peter Boulden
0:59:17
bigger? But it wasn't an infrastructure thing. I wasn't like, oh shit, it was more of a thing. It was a life thing. Life gets complicated.

Dwight Peccora
0:59:24
Look, yes, but I can't shorten life. I can't make it bigger or smaller. We're talking about business. And the truth is, is that is not who we naturally are. And I get it. We might be talking to craftsmen out there or people who are not going to be striving, but that is a totally different dynamic. You can't interflux the two.

Peter Boulden
0:59:40
Well, listen, I said my piece. I feel good about our message. Here, let's move on. Last thing, Trey, what are you most excited about right now in dentistry or your own thing? What's going on? What are you most excited about? What are you hitting the ground just thrilled

Peter Boulden
0:59:54
that you get to do today?

Peter Boulden
0:59:55
Great question. All right, so in dentistry, I am most excited about AI. We just put Pearl in across all the offices. And that's, I'm excited to see how-

Peter Boulden
1:00:04
Is it Kyle Stanley coming to the summit?

Peter Boulden
1:00:05
Yeah, Kyle Stanley, founder of Pearl, is speaking at the Bulletproof Summit. So we just had him train. He got on and did a Zoom with all the docs and went through the whole program.

Trey Tippit
1:00:15
Kyle did?

Peter Boulden
1:00:16
Yeah.

Peter Boulden
1:00:16
No way. Everyone was super excited about that. And for my own program, we just added two more offices, one startup, one purchase, and I love growth. So this is, I'm back. Every time you're thriving right now.

Craig Spodak
1:00:31
Oh yeah.

Trey Tippit
1:00:31
I'm excited.

Peter Boulden
1:00:32
Good for you, brother.

Dwight Peccora
1:00:33
Good for you.

Peter Boulden
1:00:33
Dwight, I think this kind of the same answer, right? What's most exciting for you right now?

Peter Boulden
1:00:38
What are you, what are you getting just hitting the ground?

Dwight Peccora
1:00:40
First off, I love the fact that you started with the AI talk because we put in like over jet about a year ago and it's transformed the consistency of patient care across all offices. It's just beautiful. The doctors love it. So anything AI, I'm spending a lot of time, I know Pete and I are in the same, we're diving down into some of this tech because I think it's gonna drastically change the way we do it. So that's an exciting moment for me right now because anytime there's a giant change in the way the world's going to work, I feel like I wanna be slightly on the edge of it and kind of enjoy it. At the same time, to me, it's build time. It is double down and grow and invest in kind of what we're doing. I'm expanding my management company and I'm investing in other avenues outside of just dentistry, which is kind of fun and what management company can do. And so that to me is the gameplay right now

Dwight Peccora
1:01:31
and I'm excited about it. You can answer this or not. Is 100% of your discretionary income

Peter Boulden
1:01:38
going towards things in your business right now.

Dwight Peccora
1:01:43
Yeah, I'm doubling down on everything.

Peter Boulden
1:01:44
100% of your things other than your mortgage and your car or whatever, your groceries, 100% of your discretionary income is going towards your own business.

Dwight Peccora
1:01:53
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's that time. Craig. Can you tell from afar?

Peter Boulden
1:01:59
I can, no, you guys are, I can tell there's definitely a different swagger going on right now and I think you both live and flow when you are creating. And that is cool.

Peter Boulden
1:02:09
Craig, what are you most excited about right now, bud? Right at the moment, maybe this is just a couple week thing, but it's EP right now. I'm most excited about Bulletproof. I feel like there's this, like we spoke about, there's a challenge and not giving up on how to arm the profession with the tools. I feel like the profession's under attack and I'm feeling very called to help dentistry in whatever way I can. So Bulletproof has excited me a lot. But I mean that doesn't mean I'm not less excited about other things. But like you asked me, that's what's on my plate right now. I'm working on trying to help, like kind of like the BP alliance thing. I'm working with a buddy, with someone and I'm just working with Peter and on other things and kind of working on my own silo right now and trying to see if things work and then to bring it over to the mat to you and everybody else. Yeah, your mission's just evolved and I think there's some divine intervention that's pushed you into like this is a good calling for you for sure. Yeah, I like it. I like it. But I also like dentistry too. What are you excited about, Peter? So we're doing, building a commercial lab right now, which I'm really excited about. And you know, Dr. Gandhi, who's one of my partners, is really kind of taking that, and he's a highly technological dentist, and building out like a really cool lab that I think you guys, even you guys, would be impressed with from a tech standpoint. Just like, soup to nuts, full digital, full 3D printing. Like the 3D printers that we're buying, you guys,

Peter Boulden
1:03:37
are the size of refrigerators.

Peter Boulden
1:03:39
Yeah.

Peter Boulden
1:03:40
Which ones are they?

Peter Boulden
1:03:41
Carbon 3D?

Peter Boulden
1:03:42
I can't disclose that yet.

Peter Boulden
1:03:43
You know what the problem with the lab business is?

Trey Tippit
1:03:45
Tell me, buddy.

Peter Boulden
1:03:46
Ha ha ha.

Peter Boulden
1:03:48
Tell him, Dwight.

Dwight Peccora
1:03:49
They're not profitable.

Trey Tippit
1:03:51
Well, that's one of the problems.

Peter Boulden
1:03:53
Hey, yes, yes, but that's fine.

Dwight Peccora
1:03:55
I'm not very critical.

Peter Boulden
1:03:57
All right, let me say this. I'm opening up a lab business that is private. It is only for my own ecosystem. So I don't profit is irrelevant to me. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I should, I should have made that disclaimer.

Peter Boulden
1:04:08
It is not open to the public and I'm not trying to, yeah. Yeah. It is mainly for speed to delivery, Greg. Yeah. No, I see. Costs go down. Oh, I would love, I love my lab for those reasons. I don't love my lab as a standalone business, but my lab is a practice. Yeah. And for the record, all four of us have a lab.

Peter Boulden
1:04:26
Yeah, no I don't.

Peter Boulden
1:04:27
There's a reason, or now you do. Well, not yet, but I didn't feel like there was ever a time. I'll maybe go into it later, but there's been some technological advances. I was like, okay, now's the time. That was the consensus among my guys and me. It was like, now's the time, the tech has evolved enough. The Millers, the 3D printing, the AI tech design is freaking mind-blowing you guys. The CAD CAM AI design from ExoCAD is oh yeah what the like I know what's going on right now. I would have to identify the techs you're ready for yourself like the techs that are going to run your

Dwight Peccora
1:05:05
problem. Peter I would have to have two maybe three times the number of techs I have right now if it wasn't for ExoCAD and the methodology of just kind of open source, just throwing it all around into all this AI add-ons that are kicking in. I mean, they're amazing. They can scale so fast. When I used to watch somebody change the margin and the distance, forget it. It's just, it's amazing. So much faster.

Peter Boulden
1:05:30
It's so neat.

Peter Boulden
1:05:31
You know, Trey, to your comment, like you'd asked me 10 years ago, I would have said the Windows 10 years. Like, I've always been on record saying like, I think it's the most exciting time in dentistry. This is like the golden years. I think AI, Dwight, like you're saying,

Peter Boulden
1:05:43
plus advancements in some of this like printing technology.

Dwight Peccora
1:05:48
Oh yeah.

Peter Boulden
1:05:49
Is I, yeah.

Peter Boulden
1:05:50
I know you're gonna say target spectrists, I understand.

Peter Boulden
1:05:53
No, no, no, I'm gonna say that too. But also I think Peter, had you had a lab or started a lab 10 years ago, it would have been good for you as well. No, no, no, no, no. Because I would have never been able quality that I would wanted. I'm an output perspective from a cosmetics, but I did have experience, correct? In 2002, when I actually left a practice and opened my own, I had experience with the in-house lab and it was a complete shit show. So that's maybe was my own bias of not wanting to do that because I just had, it was like, Ooh, I don't want anything to do with that. I want to send my shit out and pay for it in a transaction and it come back, perfect. That was it. There's opportunities beyond cosmetics. Someone breaks the back door.

Peter Boulden
1:06:30
Of course, but I didn't have that at the time.

Peter Boulden
1:06:32
So now you're right. Business has evolved, I think the tech is there. I think it's an exciting time to be doing cool shit like that and Dwight, he's like AI there, but also AI. I mean, look, we had a conversation, Craig asked a great question about a mall, like are you gonna complete the loop and have AI start talking to X, Y, and Z, and it was like it's coming, right? So the advancements, like Craig, you and I spoke in AACD, and I was like, this isn't the next 10 years, this isn't the next five years, things are gonna look different in the next 12 months in our business world, right? And it's not gonna be to our detriment,

Peter Boulden
1:07:06
it's going to be for our advantage.

Dwight Peccora
1:07:09
Well, can I make a comment on that?

Peter Boulden
1:07:10
Please.

Dwight Peccora
1:07:11
If you are not, I mean, I'll sit here and say really basic examples that I have had in my practice for over a year, right? Patient prism, listening to, using AI to listen to our phone calls, where if a patient said they were missing a tooth and my person who answered the phone call did not discuss with them tooth replacement options like implants or bridges and things like that, it would automatically grab that, recognize the person on my team's phone who answered the phone, send it to their email box with the recording and say, you should call this patient back and remind them that we have these options. I've been doing that for over a year for sure. And then items like digital labs or overjet where AI is reading your x-rays at 40 times deeper variations in gray than the human eye can see. Stop trying to act like this is our gameplay. It's not. Radiology is not going to be the human eye game anymore. These are the things I've been dealing with, we've been implementing for over a year. If you're not already doing those things, you're gonna get really behind. Because the pace at which things are kicking in, like those are simple easy examples. And in my opinion… How did you find out about patient prism? We've used them. In fact, you know who you probably turned me on to it originally was Jenny Bollman from doing marketing. She, because for her it's a standard of figuring out you can bring in as much marketing as you want. Yeah.

Peter Boulden
1:08:37
Unless you can't track and understand how it's going. That was kind of our whole conversation. Jenny gets blamed when things ring and they don't book as new patients even though she's driving leads. Yeah, I've been working with Jenny for years and that was one of the first

Dwight Peccora
1:08:51
things she implemented, right?

Peter Boulden
1:08:52
So one of the things I just want to let you know that Peter negotiated with patient prism. We just signed up, we're both paying customers, but he negotiated a three month trial. So you can sign up at BPprisonprism.com. They've set up pages for EP customers. So you can try it out for three months, 90 days, fire them and say, yeah, that was cool. Or like, I guess he's that confident. He's like, you're not going to fire us.

Dwight Peccora
1:09:13
So, and I guess my point is not necessarily like specific add-ons, like that's amazing and perfect for everybody. I'm just saying get off zero because this is going to hit us hard. It's like the, it's like the practices that had no computers and we're fighting, having computers and writing down and having colored pencils and doing that and did that for years and years and years. They missed out on so much.

Peter Boulden
1:09:35
Well, and to come full circle and then we'll wrap Dwight is that like remember you're talking about like leveling the playing field and right and so like you're saying get off zero start investigating things yeah allow you to bring a gun do a gunfight yeah you know so how is the pro la I going for you Trey you deep into it enough that you can actually speak about it you know what there's so we're still trying to decide how what the best use of it right now is whether it be patient education or standardization of diagnosis that type of thing and I've seen a little bit of all of it I've docs that have really gotten into it and I have docs that are completely against it. Oh yeah, of course. We're still in that initial, let's field out what the majority is going to feel like and this will kind of declare itself on what its use is going to be for us but I'm excited about it, because it's exactly what Dwight said. This is coming.

Trey Tippit
1:10:31
Don't come forward.

Dwight Peccora
1:10:32
And when we made it part of our morning huddle, we went into the discussion about same-day dentistry, and then it populate the report. This many patients are coming in to the office with undiagnosed decay from previous X-rays we've already taken, and previous periodontal conditions that were undiagnosed. Here's your same-day list. Those lists got to the point where people weren't you know they weren't on it they weren't logging in we would print those off put them in the doctor's lounge on people's desks. These are your patients that are coming in by the way double-check those when they take new sets of x-rays or go through it and it changed the way I mean all my doctors will sit here and say we fought it at the beginning. Oh it was a developmental groove it wasn't decay. Yeah bull just wait you'll see yes there are some areas. If the, you know what really did a great job, it also got our assistants to make sure that they were getting the X-ray perfect, you know? And then it fixed insurance issues. So it's all about training and developing, getting the whole team. It does a whole lot more for us than you think it would.

Craig Spodak
1:11:30
That's awesome.

Peter Boulden
1:11:30
That's good stuff, yeah.

Dwight Peccora
1:11:32
Yeah, it's making it.

Peter Boulden
1:11:32
Let's get Kyle on the podcast.

Peter Boulden
1:11:34
Yeah, I think that's a good idea.

Peter Boulden
1:11:36
I think that's a good idea.

Dwight Peccora
1:11:38
So his is, what is his called?

Peter Boulden
1:11:40
Pearl AI, David Sachs from the island is an investor in it too, which is kind of cool.

Peter Boulden
1:11:44
Oh yeah, I did hear that.

Trey Tippit
1:11:46
Yeah, he is.

Peter Boulden
1:11:47
Let's get David Sachs on.

Peter Boulden
1:11:48
There's a lot.

Peter Boulden
1:11:50
We'll do Brady, Frank, and David Sachs at the same time.

Trey Tippit
1:11:54
Oh my God.

Peter Boulden
1:11:55
Trick.

Dwight Peccora
1:11:55
Oh wow.

Peter Boulden
1:11:57
Trick.

Peter Boulden
1:11:57
I gotta tell you, I got a little sweaty back right

Peter Boulden
1:11:59
about publishing this pod. I know we're still recording, but I'm thinking. I know, but like just leaving it in about, I feel like we're a little rough on Brady and the whole Delta thing. I feel like it was super tangential and not relevant. And so I apologize to the audience. Listen, that's no apology necessary. If you're going to retake it, you can apologize.

Peter Boulden
1:12:22
Hey, hey, Trey, it's the power of editing.

Peter Boulden
1:12:25
It could never have happened.

Trey Tippit
1:12:26
I totally understand. I totally understand.

Dwight Peccora
1:12:28
That Delta part is not going to make it.

Peter Boulden
1:12:31
You know what?

Craig Spodak
1:12:32
I'm going to live in all my wars.

Peter Boulden
1:12:33
What are we talking about?

Dwight Peccora
1:12:34
See, by me calling out Peter and saying it's not going to make it, he's for sure like, no, I'm going to double down.

Peter Boulden
1:12:40
What Delta part, guys? What did we talk about that I'm not remembering?

Peter Boulden
1:12:42
I'm falling asleep. I'm falling asleep, guys.

Trey Tippit
1:12:44
What happened? What Delta part?

Peter Boulden
1:12:46
Seriously, what are you talking about?

Dwight Peccora
1:12:49
Delta airlines, brother.

Peter Boulden
1:12:51
Oh, Delta airlines, I'm thinking Delta.

Trey Tippit
1:12:53
Oh, I thought you were kidding.

Peter Boulden
1:12:54
No, you leave Delta in, bro. You look like a fricking, please. That was great.

Peter Boulden
1:12:59
All right, I'll leave it in.

Peter Boulden
1:13:00
I'll follow my sword. I was just trying to save people time, not time, not to listen to my, you know, but it's hard, it's hard being the moderator, coming up with great ideas for you guys to talk about. It's hard to spend the time,

Peter Boulden
1:13:14
and so sometimes I run out of topics.

Trey Tippit
1:13:15
I'm sorry.

Peter Boulden
1:13:16
One last topic. Lonely endeavor. It's a lonely endeavor at the top. Before we run guys, one last topic. Summit, get on the summit.

Trey Tippit
1:13:23
Take it.

Peter Boulden
1:13:24
No, but you know what's cool?

Peter Boulden
1:13:25
No, you should do that actually.

Peter Boulden
1:13:26
Wait, I gotta tell you, I'm funding this new lab and a whole office based on ERC checks I got. Trade-outs what I'm saying. All right, well, inside jokes are super cool. I'm just saying that.

Peter Boulden
1:13:39
It's not inside, bro.

Peter Boulden
1:13:41
It's a real thing, and if it is real, and I got it, and I can say that if you haven't, it's ridiculous. And I'm literally, I guess, a whole office and a lab.

Peter Boulden
1:13:49
I agree.

Peter Boulden
1:13:50
So.

Peter Boulden
1:13:51
Yeah, but yeah. No, it's all right.

Peter Boulden
1:13:53
You're awesome, that's what I'm talking about. There's still not doing it.

Dwight Peccora
1:13:57
My God, we've been doing it for two years now.

Dwight Peccora
1:14:00
Well, not Peter and I.

Peter Boulden
1:14:01
We only did it five six months ago just got our check so there's a lot of people that haven't done it yet. Yeah Dwight.

Dwight Peccora
1:14:07
Oh I hear you. I hear you. I'll have like a 30 minute promotional that will be in the middle of this pod anyway that specifically discusses it so we'll be fine.

Peter Boulden
1:14:19
He's pointing to being he's accusing of being a grifter. I think the real grifter is you, Dwight. We're giving you all this publicity. You're not that entertaining, brother.

Trey Tippit
1:14:34
Yeah, Dwight.

Trey Tippit
1:14:35
Dwight, you're going to flip.

Peter Boulden
1:14:38
Dwight, the grift.

Peter Boulden
1:14:40
The grift is real. Oh, listen, we pay these companies to do work for us. We believe in them. We're not doing the over switch.

Dwight Peccora
1:14:51
I agree.

Dwight Peccora
1:14:52
I love you guys.

Peter Boulden
1:14:53
Two guys on the bottom, like, I don't know.

Peter Boulden
1:14:54
I don't know about this.

Trey Tippit
1:14:55
I'm supposed to be on the bottom of these guys.

Peter Boulden
1:14:56
Anyway, get your Summit tickets.

Peter Boulden
1:14:57
That's going to be- Is there a joke there to you guys in the Summit

Peter Boulden
1:15:03
or no?

Dwight Peccora
1:15:04
No, we're excited about the Summit, man.

Peter Boulden
1:15:05
I'm just excited about getting Dennis hundreds of thousands of dollars in ERC.

Dwight Peccora
1:15:10
We're going to, at the Summit, we're going to give you hundreds of billions of dollars of worth is we're going to quadruple billion X you but acts now

Peter Boulden
1:15:18
Act now What's in yours look all right? Well audience? I hope you enjoyed having Dwight and Trey on the podcast What's in yours look all right? Well audience? I hope you enjoyed having Dwight and Trey on the podcast Anyway, I got to go guys

Transcribed with Cockatoo